COH2.ORG » Forums » Parlor Room » COH2 Central » COH2 Bugs » Various exploity bugs

Various exploity bugs

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Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17

1. AoE suppression does not apply correctly (only considers cover of targetted model; ignores cover of nearby units)

Let's assume we have an MG user that wants to suppress two enemy squads:
- A green-cover squad (i.e., a squad behind green cover)
- A no-cover squad

Normally, when a squad is behind green cover, it should never get suppressed.

However, the MG use can exploit their way around that by targeting the no-cover squad:
- The no-cover squad will quickly accumulate suppression
- The same amount of suppression will be applied to the green-cover squad (ignoring the green cover bonus)

The MG user can also completely nullify the effects of cover by targeting tanks instead of squads:
- Tanks have a high target size, thus will receive a large amount of suppression
- The suppression will apply to all nearby squads.

Consider the following two pictures.

If the MG aims at either of the green-cover squads, neither of them will ever be suppressed:

However, if the MG targets the King Tiger, the sandbag-cover squad will get pinned very very fast:

(For some reason the squad taking cover behind the King Tiger doesn't receive suppression)

Expected behaviour:
- Each model in the AoE suppression area should receive suppression relative to their own cover
- Thus, if a single model of a single squad happens to be out of cover, this doesn't lead to suppressing all squads in the area
- (maybe) Targeting vehicles should not suppress nearby infantry

2. Panzerschrecks/Bazookas/PIATs act like supercharged shotguns in close combat (i.e., insane anti-infantry performance)

Recently, a patch tried to reduce the efficacy of handheld AT weapons vs infantry. By reducing the accuracy, you are reducing the chances of achieving schreck-snipes.

However, no matter how much you reduce the accuracy, a scatter roll will happen. If the attacker model is hugging the targeted model, the rocket will hit the target 100% of the time.

Naturally, this gives AT squads an INSANE edge in close quarter combat.

Here, I am showing you the distance that the models need to have in order for the shotgun-effect to happen.

Panzershreck aim:

Panzerschreck result (100% of the time):

What needs to be done:
- Use some of the ideas from Miragefla's mod
- Use target tables to reduce damage vs infantry

Another idea:
- An interesting cornercase is that PIATs require two shots to kill a model
- Further nerf PIAT anti-infantry damage (e.g., make them deal 10-ish damage instead of 40-ish)
- Apply a similar modifier to Bazookas/Schrecks (so that they also deal 10-ish damage)

3. Firefly Tulip rockets insta-wipe garrisons

If a Tulip rocket does not collide with a valid target (e.g., tank), it will explode at max range. If the area of explosion happens to include a garrisoned building, every unit in the garrison will take 60 damage per rocket.

The Firefly launches 2 rockets -> 120 damage in total to all garrisoned units ->

If that's not the intended behaviour, maybe modify the garrison damage multiplier so that each rocket deals no more than 39 damage (e.g., by decreasing the garrison multiplier from 25% to 16%).

That way Tulips get to retain some anti-garrison capability, but no longer insta-wipe

4. Stealthed JP4 gives cover to nearby units

This makes it possible for the enemy to guess the location of a JP4.

It also introduces immersion-breaking troll effects into the game, like the following:

5. Comet/Churchill crew grenades damage buildings

If I understood the designers' intentions, only sactchels/high-explosives should damage buildings themselves.

The crew defense grenades of the British tanks seem to ignore that design decision.

Since you are fixing satchels this patch (so that they damage buildings), perhaps you could apply the same solution in reverse to the grenades.

6. Demo charges deal double damage when exploding sympathetically (e.g., via external explosion) (oversight?)

Demo charges (Soviet Engineers, Commandos, USF Assault Engineers) have two ways to explode:
- Manually (when the player cleas the "Explode" button
- Sympathetically (e.g., when somebody throws a grenade on the democharge)

When demo charges explode normally, this deals X damage, which is enough to bring an OKW forward structure down to 50% HP (that's OK).

However, when a player throws a grenade on a democharge, this deals double damage. This is enough to take down most tanks/instagib OKW forward structures.

Is this intended?

7. UKF Commando Smoke raid & Gliders (visual bug?)

When the UKF player activates Smoke raid, all units on friendly territory gain stealth.
It is possible to trigger this ability while a commando glider is airborne over friendly territory.

When the commandos land, they will have gained the stealth ability (thus, invisible to the enemy). However, the commando models will not be transparent (as is the case with stealthed units).

This is either an oversight (commandos should not gain stealth), or a visual bug (commando models should look transparent).

You have a great idea that improves the QoL aspects of the game? Please, drop your idea here:
https://www.coh2.org/topic/57860/some-qol-suggestions

Check out Cruzz's DPS calculator:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7gwy65JLbSRMEJ3M2ZPandMMW8/view?usp=sharing
(Download the file, open it with your browser)

Multi Quote

Posts: 44

Agree that most of these should be fixed. The demo charge thing however has been around for quite a while, so I'm pretty sure relic views it as intended.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAO_SnFERNE

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1

Pretty sure 1. has always happened since CoH1, so I'd basically assume it's a bug in the engine. Could be wrong though!

I was also under the belief it ignored cover entirely for the AoE-suppressing squads, I'll have to try comparing sometime to prove this.

Posts: 559 | Subs: 17

Passing this along to designers to see what they say. Thanks

Posts: 2454 | Subs: 2

24 Feb 2016, 18:59 PMMr.Smith

Normally, when a squad is behind green cover, it should never get suppressed.

This is false. Even in green cover, squads take a small amount of suppression and will eventually be suppressed.

Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17

24 Feb 2016, 22:20 PMYukiko

This is false. Even in green cover, squads take a small amount of suppression and will eventually be suppressed.

True. However, it will take several bursts for a squad in green cover to get suppressed. The bug I am describing makes suppression completely bypass green cover bonuses (and the squad will get PINNED on 3-4 bursts)

Multi Quote

Posts: 422 | Subs: 3

Also one is that when a mg is suppressing first it only suppresses one model, the rest will continue to run at normal speed until a move order is given. This is why volks can usually just run up to the mg and throw a grenade. mg42 is a exception due to its high aoe suppression

Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17

24 Feb 2016, 22:31 PMSirlami

Also one is that when a mg is suppressing first it only suppresses one model, the rest will continue to run at normal speed until a move order is given. This is why volks can usually just run up to the mg and throw a grenade. mg42 is a exception due to its high aoe suppression

That's a good catch.

Sometimes I give a command to throw a grenade to the MG, while I am well outside its field of fire. My squad will move forward until they lob the grenade (which they seem to do).

I can't say that I've really paid attention to that behaviour before, but now that you mention it..

Multi Quote

Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17

Oh yeah!

Another thing about Suppression AoE is that some MGs might inflict smaller amount of suppression on suppressed/pinned squads.

What this means:
- If you keep focusing fire on a suppressed squad other enemy squads in the vicinity will receive even less AoE suppression.

Multi Quote

Posts: 368

24 Feb 2016, 22:31 PMSirlami

Also one is that when a mg is suppressing first it only suppresses one model, the rest will continue to run at normal speed until a move order is given. This is why volks can usually just run up to the mg and throw a grenade. mg42 is a exception due to its high aoe suppression

This is really annoying, I'm surprised it hadn't been reported (that I've seen). I believe it was introduced in one of the last two or three patches (maybe around the British F. release).

24 Feb 2016, 18:59 PMMr.Smith

6. Demo charges deal double damage when exploding sympathetically (e.g., via external explosion) (oversight?)

I believe somebody from Relic said it was intended design, but I really hope it was a misunderstanding, because it makes zero sense the way it is now.

Thanks for the finds, OP

Posts: 677

4.)JP is not the only vehicles providing heavy cover all medium tanks provide heavy cover bonus as far as I know...

Posts: 1273

He said "4. Stealthed JP4 gives cover to nearby units", and JP4 is the only tank to achieve this - which clearly shouldn't be the case. Something that is "phased out" like the JP4 shouldn't give cover.

Posts: 677

24 Feb 2016, 23:04 PMJohnSmith

He said "4. Stealthed JP4 gives cover to nearby units", and JP4 is the only tank to achieve this - which clearly shouldn't be the case. Something that is "phased out" like the JP4 shouldn't give cover.

Don't you have anything better to do than claim that what I write is wrong, (while being wrong yourself)?

Meduim tanks tank provide heavy cover makes little sense that that a JP4 should lose that ability because it is stealthed...

Stealthed JP4 IS NOT the only only tank to achieve this Luch does exactly the same...

Posts: 1273

Urgh, then argue with OP being wrong, not with me. I didn't say you were wrong, I simply did an addendum. You don't have to be that ungrateful as a reply. These people nowadays..

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1

All right, tested what I thought, you're right Mr.Smith - the AoE suppression's definitely dependent on the main target's cover rather than ignoring cover entirely.

Posts: 851 | Subs: 1

24 Feb 2016, 18:59 PMMr.Smith

Is this intended?

Everything is working as intended. Its a feature, not a bug /s

Good analyses. 4 and 7 shouldnt be very bothersome, as the trolling in 4 rarely occurs.

Posts: 2742

24 Feb 2016, 22:31 PMSirlami

Also one is that when a mg is suppressing first it only suppresses one model, the rest will continue to run at normal speed until a move order is given. This is why volks can usually just run up to the mg and throw a grenade. mg42 is a exception due to its high aoe suppression

I've been noting this for a long time. I've been amazed at how easy it is for infantry to walk up to mgs and throw any kind of nade. The trick is to not do the frenzied micro that's considered 'pro' and just let the game play itself.

Posts: 2470

24 Feb 2016, 18:59 PMMr.Smith

6. Demo charges deal double damage when exploding sympathetically (e.g., via external explosion) (oversight?)

this is true of all explosives afaik. the goliath actually has two explosions attached to it.

Posts: 677

24 Feb 2016, 23:18 PMJohnSmith

Urgh, then argue with OP being wrong, not with me. I didn't say you were wrong, I simply did an addendum. You don't have to be that ungrateful as a reply. These people nowadays..

I can debate with Mr.Smith (OP) just fine and I did argue with him and pointed out to him that vehicles providing cover is a general feature not limited to the JP4 (cloaked or non cloaked) so we can leave OP out of it...

Your addition that "JP4 is the only tank to achieve this" is wrong as I already pointed out.

Your addition that "Something that is "phased out" like the JP4 shouldn't give cover." comes with no argument.

Adding a mechanism that removes cover and reintroduces it when unit is revealed rather complicates things with rather poor benefits.

Comments "like These people nowadays.." are not very helpful either...

Posts: 1273

25 Feb 2016, 08:05 AMMyself

*snip*

Do you just want to argue word for word just for the sake of it? I could also easily go line by line about how "wrong" people are, but this approach is utter nonsense and isn't really the most social approach to a discussion, but you seem to enjoy doing this, so well done for that!

OP's argumentation about stealth and tanks:

This makes it possible for the enemy to guess the location of a JP4.

It also introduces immersion-breaking troll effects into the game, like the following:

I agree with Mr.Smith, it is immersion breaking, and kinda trolling - It does not require any more argumentation than that. In scenarios that involves stealthy enemy tanks and nearby enemy infantry, all the opposing player gets to see are infantry standing around but in green cover for no viable reason at first. Even if one guesses the location of JP4, it still cannot be hit due to the phasing out bug.

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COH2.ORG » Forums » Parlor Room » COH2 Central » COH2 Bugs » Various exploity bugs

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+3
5.
【Ushio】
150
49
.754
+2
6.
☞ ps3YES ☜
1871
1030
.645
-1
7.
sweetchino
388
210
.649
+10
8.
L o r d ☨
286
147
.661
+6
9.
HSRometh
723
585
.553
+4
10.
PERVITIN
155
87
.640
+1

                    

                        1.
André
878
390
.692
+2
2.
.
638
250
.718
+7
3.
Stalker111PL
1055
437
.707
-1
4.
Shifty
158
92
.632
+2
5.
Riiiiina
315
127
.713
+3
6.
★Osas
334
146
.696
+8
7.
SoE-Sturmpanther
350
58
.858
-2
8.
JOE
719
438
.621
-2
9.
✠[69th] H.Hans Panzer Division
70
31
.693
+2
10.
CAuMOH
448
258
.635
-1

                    

                        1.
无敌皇子
480
354
.576
+4
2.
死者为大
368
179
.673
+3
3.
东云谅子防卫圈
432
344
.557
+1
4.
BATTLEDANNY1
342
258
.570
+1
5.
洛林堡重装龙骑士
201
144
.583
+3
6.
ざぁこ♡~ざぁこ♡~
470
372
.558
+1
7.
Umpalumpa
2051
1866
.524
-2
8.
索🐎里海盗
303
202
.600
-2
9.
龙年♂dark吉
71
63
.530
-2
10.
NOOB ez?
166
111
.599
+4

                    

						Data provided by 
						
						 Relic Entertainment
					