Seriously. Out of all the core soviet doctrinal units there is one unit that literally serves absolutely no role. ALl the units have a purpose, they have a more or less clearly defined role and overall soviets are a pretty well rounded faction.
Penals are 270mp, cost 160mp (a huge investment in the early game) for T1 and are barely better than conscripts.
They are basically slightly worse than conscripts at long range, way worse than conscripts at mid range, and only better than them at close range. They have worse scaling than conscripts, despite being more expensive, they also cant throw AT nades, and their satchel cant even kill buildings.
They have the flamer, which is almost completely useless since engineers are cheaper and perform the role better.
They simply need a DPS buff.
Penals need buff/redesign
18 Jan 2016, 13:17 PM
#1
Posts: 1702
18 Jan 2016, 13:21 PM
#2
Posts: 2260 | Subs: 1
how about being able to be equipped with ppsh or DP once t4 is teched?
18 Jan 2016, 13:37 PM
#3
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
Seriously. Out of all the core soviet doctrinal units there is one unit that literally serves absolutely no role.
Although I agree that they could use a a completely different role and have suggested it in this thread:
http://www.coh2.org/topic/46927/penal-battalion-a-completely-different-approach
I have to point out that you analysis is flawed...
They have a role they are anti garrison troops that is why their kit has flamer and satchels...on the other hand molotovs are so very effective anti-garrison that what makes them unnecessary in most cases...(they can still blow up okw setup trucks)
Penals are 270mp, cost 160mp (a huge investment in the early game) for T1 and are barely better at conscripts.
They are basically slightly worse than conscripts at long range, way worse than conscripts at conscripts, and only better than them at close range. They have worse scaling than conscripts, despite being more expensive, they also cant throw AT nades, and their satchel cant even kill buildings.
That is incorrect they are vastly better than conscript close range (they even outDPS riflemen) and are smaller size...their vet bonuses are some of the highest accuracy bonuses than any other infantry....
They have the flamer, which is almost completely useless since engineers are cheaper and perform the role better.
that is incorrect also a 6 men flamer squad is much better than a 4 men, that has been established by the riflemen (5 men)flamers...
18 Jan 2016, 14:08 PM
#4
Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1
#penalsbuffwhen
18 Jan 2016, 14:16 PM
#5
4 Posts: 444
#penalsbuffwhen
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18 Jan 2016, 14:19 PM
#6
Posts: 17891 | Subs: 8
Cost to 280-290, long range DPS from 4 to 8.
DONE.
/thread
DONE.
/thread
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
18 Jan 2016, 14:28 PM
#7
Posts: 322
Guess what, they already excel at their role, which is:
- Deny building, Cover.
- Completely render SMG play pointless.
- Hard-counter Gren/Vloks spam early game.
- Rekt OKW trucks.
/LearnHowToUseThem
- Deny building, Cover.
- Completely render SMG play pointless.
- Hard-counter Gren/Vloks spam early game.
- Rekt OKW trucks.
/LearnHowToUseThem
Brummbar is very powerful
18 Jan 2016, 14:36 PM
#8
Posts: 17891 | Subs: 8
Guess what, they already excel at their role, which is:
- Deny building, Cover.
- Completely render SMG play pointless.
- Hard-counter Gren/Vloks spam early game.
- Rekt OKW trucks.
/LearnHowToUseThem
Lead by example and post replays, apparently not even top players have enough L2P in them to make an effective use of them.
You want me to ask specific caster to cast your games, where you use penals and win instead of getting rekt within 10 minutes?
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
18 Jan 2016, 14:49 PM
#9
Posts: 281
Guess what, they already excel at their role, which is:
- Deny building, Cover.
- Completely render SMG play pointless.
- Hard-counter Gren/Vloks spam early game.
- Rekt OKW trucks.
/LearnHowToUseThem
-So does a molotov or combat engineers with a flametrowher.
-axis have 2 squads with smgs, pioneers and assault grenadiers.
-why? there are more expensive than cons and only slightly better in mid and short range. And have no at nade or at ability.
- If your trucks get reachs by 3 satchet charges you did something wrong.
18 Jan 2016, 14:50 PM
#10
Posts: 677
Cost to 280-290, long range DPS from 4 to 8.
DONE.
/thread
What you are suggesting will create more problems than it will solve, it turns early game penals to more durable riflemen with non doctrinal flamers...
18 Jan 2016, 15:00 PM
#11
Posts: 17891 | Subs: 8
What you are suggesting will create more problems than it will solve, it turns early game penals to more durable riflemen with non doctrinal flamers...
Oh yeah, the problems, like 222 having a real squad to hardcounter or soviets having actual response to axis infantry without having to spam the shit out of maxims or doctrinal infantry, or kubel having another squad on field to vet on.
Ohh the prooooobleeeeems which you can't even name.
And anther thing, rifles have smoke nades, AT nades, normal nades and completely different support behind them, these can't be compared plus you'd be left with NOT AT AT ALL, even soft one unless you got additionally T2.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
18 Jan 2016, 15:04 PM
#12
Posts: 677
Oh yeah, the problems, like 222 having a real squad to hardcounter or soviets having actual response to axis infantry without having to spam the shit out of maxims or doctrinal infantry, or kubel having another squad on field to vet on.
Ohh the prooooobleeeeems which you can't even name.
And anther thing, rifles have smoke nades, AT nades, normal nades and completely different support behind them, these can't be compared plus you'd be left with NOT AT AT ALL, even soft one unless you got additionally T2.
One can built conscript and Penals it is not one or the other...and pay attention to "early" Penals...
If you can't see why 6 men squads with better DPS than riflemen and flamers would cause problems I guess I cant really help you...
18 Jan 2016, 15:06 PM
#13
Posts: 322
Anyone sincerely interested in learning how to use them could watch some RedWingsX games.
Brummbar is very powerful
18 Jan 2016, 15:26 PM
#14
Posts: 17891 | Subs: 8
Anyone sincerely interested in learning how to use them could watch some RedWingsX games.
Let me enlighten you on something-there were people who were very successful with OKW before the buffs, it didn't meant the changes weren't needed.
Plus, RW tends to lose miserably when he goes penals, not always, but often enough.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
18 Jan 2016, 15:31 PM
#15
Posts: 281
Anyone sincerely interested in learning how to use them could watch some RedWingsX games.
A good player will be more effetic when using constrips over penals. There is no point in using them.
18 Jan 2016, 15:40 PM
#16
Posts: 1891
how about being able to be equipped with ppsh or DP once t4 is teched?
This is pretty good but it would force you to not go flamer on them, which currently is one of the two reasons to build the unit. I think maybe T3 is a healthy amount of time where you could not get flamers on them and still have them remain relevant.
The Fascisti Will Pay.
18 Jan 2016, 15:43 PM
#17
Posts: 1954
Guess what, they already excel at their role, which is:
- Deny building, Cover.
- Completely render SMG play pointless.
- Hard-counter Gren/Vloks spam early game.
- Rekt OKW trucks.
/LearnHowToUseThem
Except that they don't, and if you'd used them anytime in the last 4-5 months, you would know better. They're worse than Cons in almost every way.
http://prod.coh2.org/topic/44537/penal-satchel-charges/page/1
http://www.coh2.org/topic/42537/satchel-charge-bug/page/1
18 Jan 2016, 15:46 PM
#18
Posts: 677
Except that they don't, and if you'd used them anytime in the last 4-5 months, you would know better. They're worse than Cons in almost every way.
http://prod.coh2.org/topic/44537/penal-satchel-charges/page/1
http://www.coh2.org/topic/42537/satchel-charge-bug/page/1
It still does plenty of damage to OKW truck they are talking about ambient buildings being garrisoned...
18 Jan 2016, 15:49 PM
#19
Posts: 125
have satchel stick to tanks 
18 Jan 2016, 16:23 PM
#20
Posts: 640
They have the flamer, which is almost completely useless since engineers are cheaper and perform the role better.
Their flamer actually cannot explode or be dropped though, which is one advantage. But doesn't make them worth it though. If you base your play around penals, you'll get stomped over by any remotely decent opponent.
If they had even AT nades I think they would be seen more often. But then, would anyone use conscripts because you could equip penals with AT nades AND flamers?
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