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russian armor

Calliopes

22 Dec 2015, 22:04 PM
#81
avatar of pigsoup
Patrion 14

Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2


Im not saying it's easy to counter pwerfer. I'm saying it easy to counter pwerfer COMPARED TO the calliope. It's far easier and a lot less at stack to try to counter pwerfer than it is calli. You can kill pwerfer with artillery if you want with no risk.

And I never said pwerfer was balanced either. Both need less wiping potential as you said.

I disagree that survivability of a non frontline isn't important. Unit preservation is always important. Every unit should be counter able. The reason you see so many complaints about heavies is because there seems to be no counter (even tho there are). What would you say is the most cost effective counter to an armoured mobile artillery unit?


i still stand by my opinion that health is tertiary factor to consider. although that means it is still something to consider.

anyway, i agree with you. as i said in another thread, calliope has no business of having the health of 640 hp.

it is a weird health to have. it is not high enough so that you can just park up front and barrage in full. but it is definitely high enough to make it survive a good enemy flanks or insertions which deserve to kill non frontline artillery units.

but i think the real problem is its barrage like P.Werfer.
22 Dec 2015, 22:12 PM
#82
avatar of Nosliw

Posts: 515

I had was playing a 2v2 on Crossing in the woods the other day and lost 3 vet 3 4 man lmg grens to the first barrage of a single vet 0 callopie. It was at medium range and my grens were relatively spaced out. All of them died as they were half way out of my base.

I guess this should be moved to Balance forum...


sounds like u were blobbing against an AOE ability that's strong against infantry... it's not the game's fault. it's yours.
22 Dec 2015, 23:18 PM
#83
avatar of Bulgakov

Posts: 987



There's something called a "mine". Try to succeed with your ambush against a few of them...


Exactly.

So imagine that you're ambushing a calliope, you get through to it by avoiding the mines and it just trundles slowly away bouncing your shells :) At least vs Pwerfer/stuka you have a very good chance of taking them out if you ambush. With a calliope you have very low chance if it retreats as soon as they see you.


I agree that a lot of maps make it hard to ambush these things. Actually all indirect fire in CoH2 is annoying because the maps do not allow for them to be taken out easily.


Also - minesweepers in transport vehicles detect mines. You can send one in just behind your tanks and no mine damage.
22 Dec 2015, 23:27 PM
#84
avatar of PanzerGeneralForever

Posts: 1072

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Dec 2015, 22:12 PMNosliw


sounds like u were blobbing against an AOE ability that's strong against infantry... it's not the game's fault. it's yours.

My army was comprised from 1 pios 3 grens( all got wiped) 1 pak a half track, 2 mg42s and a stolen maxim, and a scout car. If that's blobbing then I guess you can't build any units if you want want to blob.
22 Dec 2015, 23:34 PM
#85
avatar of RedT3rror

Posts: 747 | Subs: 2



There's something called "not using roads" and "avoid the obvious paths"
[...]
But there is a way if you want it.

Also - minesweepers in transport vehicles detect mines. You can send one in just behind your tranks and no mine damage.


It's easy to make a theory work in your fantasy than in reality.

It kinda sucks if there are only 3 paths to the enemy's artillery unit and one of them goes through the frontline. It's incredible hard to stay unnoticed and the enemy will obviously take precautions (as mentioned mines, keeping the arty units close other units, instant retreat after firing, firing from maximum distance or behind shotblockers).

Trying to ambush the enemy behind his lines is a suicide mission. Losing a tank+light vehicle+pios is not worth it.
22 Dec 2015, 23:44 PM
#86
avatar of Bulgakov

Posts: 987



It's easy to make a theory work in your fantasy than in reality.

It kinda sucks if there are only 3 paths to the enemy's artillery unit and one of them goes through the frontline. It's incredible hard to stay unnoticed and the enemy will obviously take precautions (as mentioned mines, keeping the arty units close other units, instant retreat after firing, firing from maximum distance or behind shotblockers).

Trying to ambush the enemy behind his lines is a suicide mission. Losing a tank+light vehicle+pios is not worth it.


I agree with you. Please understand that.


The nature of the maps is such that attacking behind the lines is overly difficult. This makes indirect fire vehicles more effective than perhaps they should be.


This goes for Stukas, Pwerfers, Katyushas. Only these three units are very weak. Meaning if you do get behind the lines, one or two shots is enough.

With the Calliope however, you have to stay around and chase it. This makes it much less likely you can kill a calliope and more likely you'll lose your unit even if you do.


23 Dec 2015, 00:04 AM
#87
avatar of RedT3rror

Posts: 747 | Subs: 2


This goes for Stukas, Pwerfers, Katyushas. Only these three units are very weak. Meaning if you do get behind the lines, one or two shots is enough.

With the Calliope however, you have to stay around and chase it. This makes it much less likely you can kill a calliope and more likely you'll lose your unit even if you do.



And my point is that if there are skilled players fighting each other, they are both skilled enough to avoid being caught offguard with their artillery. In that case the amount of hp of those units becomes irrelevant.

You can lose your game by losing your artillery units, but you should not assume to lose a game because you failed to take out the enemy's mobile arty, especially when playing axis (who just happen to be the one to face the Calliope).
23 Dec 2015, 01:00 AM
#88
avatar of jugglerman

Posts: 92

Calliope=Pay2Win?
23 Dec 2015, 18:17 PM
#89
avatar of vasa1719

Posts: 2635 | Subs: 4

Permanently Banned
Calliope=Pay2Win?


No, Drop2Win :D.
23 Dec 2015, 23:20 PM
#90
avatar of PanzerGeneralForever

Posts: 1072



And my point is that if there are skilled players fighting each other, they are both skilled enough to avoid being caught offguard with their artillery. In that case the amount of hp of those units becomes irrelevant.

You can lose your game by losing your artillery units, but you should not assume to lose a game because you failed to take out the enemy's mobile arty, especially when playing axis (who just happen to be the one to face the Calliope).

I agree that you should be able to adapt to the enemy getting mobile artillery. What kinda frustrated me with the game scenario I mention in my first post was that I had no warning there was going to be a calliope and the first 2 salvos wiped my core fighting force and changed the game with zero chance to react. That's the frustrating part.
12 Jan 2016, 17:59 PM
#91
avatar of SeismicSquall

Posts: 156

Doesn't it just make sense for mobile arty to be either a glass cannon or a heavy poker, and not a heavy cannon? Sometimes when you really need to you can dive to take out a pwerfer, katy or stuka, cause it can usually work and has pretty good chance of being worth the risk if its causing you trouble. But alot of the time you can just ignore a katy, change your strat slightly and accept the bleed; stukka also gives a clear loud warning AND and it creeps pretty slowly and predictably, giving you some time to dodge; pwerfer can be a wildcard but I have not seen or heard too many consecutive outrages regarding it. But diving to take out a calliope appears to be way too risky, but also ALOT more necessary. Even if you dont blob, you still can only separate your forces into 2-3 groups, and even then the wipe potential seems insanely probable.
12 Jan 2016, 18:55 PM
#92
avatar of MoerserKarL
Donator 22

Posts: 1108

80 people voted for "they're fine" :foreveralone:
seems like they also have no problems with the panzerwerfer
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