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russian armor

Enough is enough, fix the volks

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20 Dec 2015, 21:23 PM
#181
avatar of WhySooSerious

Posts: 1248

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Dec 2015, 22:31 PMPhy


2224h played on coh2. Who has no life here dude? Kappa


Well with 2-4 hours a day of coh since release this is what it comes up to Kappa
20 Dec 2015, 22:46 PM
#182
avatar of A big guy 4u

Posts: 168

Absouletly 100% agree.

It's disgusting that a mainline infantry squad can get AT weapons. AT defense like panzerfaust or AT nades? Sure. But a bona fide tank killer?

Seriously, mix Volks with schrecks and Sturmpios and the map is yours.

What do the wehraboos say? Get MGs? Yeah, except the Volk flame nade is also disgustingly OP. No timer, very long range and quick to throw.

OKW is still OP. LeIG spam was just the tip of the iceberg.
20 Dec 2015, 23:29 PM
#183
avatar of BeefSurge

Posts: 1891

Tbh okw doesn't even "need" shrek.

21 Dec 2015, 00:27 AM
#184
avatar of GenObi

Posts: 522

So far I 've seen two excellent suggestions, lock shrieks behind med truck so a enemy wants a fast luchs he will have to give up shrecks or my personal favorite a new "heavy infantry" with shrecks upgrade. I like to humbly suggest they be called "Veteran Grendiers" 280 mp, squad lead has Stg, burst fire, other members with mp 40 and a shrecks upgrade. Squad slightly better stats then gernadier. 4 man
21 Dec 2015, 04:09 AM
#185
avatar of COHp2wCOmp

Posts: 9

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Dec 2015, 19:57 PMRemo
Seriously, it's tiring now. It's actually making me despise one of my favorite games. Just remove the schrecks and give them fausts already and they are fine. If someone whines that they "Need an upgrade" then give them a 2 MP44 upgrade for 60 or whatever, just remove the freaking schrecks.

The game is freaking BORING on allies side because of this. You join a game, see 2 OKW and you want to kill yourself.

Fix it already...


Sure, also remove LMG upgrade for USF and give TNT charge to all engineer units. cus allies blob is even worse
21 Dec 2015, 09:17 AM
#186
avatar of Remo

Posts: 111



Sure, also remove LMG upgrade for USF and give TNT charge to all engineer units. cus allies blob is even worse




ResidentSleeper ResidentSleeper ResidentSleeper ResidentSleeper
21 Dec 2015, 11:07 AM
#188
avatar of COHp2wCOmp

Posts: 9

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Dec 2015, 09:17 AMRemo




ResidentSleeper ResidentSleeper ResidentSleeper ResidentSleeper


biased ally fanboy..
21 Dec 2015, 11:20 AM
#189
avatar of BlackKorp

Posts: 964 | Subs: 2

NUFF is NUFF bois, fix the USF zooka blob or i'll deinstall okay! >:(:foreveralone:
21 Dec 2015, 11:20 AM
#190
avatar of Bananenheld

Posts: 1593 | Subs: 1

Absouletly 100% agree.

It's disgusting that a mainline infantry squad can get AT weapons. AT defense like panzerfaust or AT nades? Sure. But a bona fide tank killer?

Seriously, mix Volks with schrecks and Sturmpios and the map is yours.

What do the wehraboos say? Get MGs? Yeah, except the Volk flame nade is also disgustingly OP. No timer, very long range and quick to throw.

OKW is still OP. LeIG spam was just the tip of the iceberg.

So no zooks for usf anymore too?o O
21 Dec 2015, 12:00 PM
#191
avatar of The amazing Chandler

Posts: 1355

I dont know what you guys are talking about. OKW is balanced in 1v1s :brad:
21 Dec 2015, 13:37 PM
#192
avatar of Teryuo

Posts: 12

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Dec 2015, 00:27 AMGenObi
So far I 've seen two excellent suggestions, lock shrieks behind med truck so a enemy wants a fast luchs he will have to give up shrecks or my personal favorite a new "heavy infantry" with shrecks upgrade. I like to humbly suggest they be called "Veteran Grendiers" 280 mp, squad lead has Stg, burst fire, other members with mp 40 and a shrecks upgrade. Squad slightly better stats then gernadier. 4 man


Looks like a cheaper version of sturmpioneers with shoddier weapons.
22 Dec 2015, 01:09 AM
#193
avatar of GenObi

Posts: 522

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Dec 2015, 13:37 PMTeryuo


Looks like a cheaper version of sturmpioneers with shoddier weapons.


Well the idea is to provide a stop gap between mainline infantry the volks, and elite infantry the ober. Look something like this strums (close range) volks ( long range) V Gen (assault, heavy weapons) Ober (long range). The idea is prevent mainline infantry from both being spamble and generally good against all target types, you created specialization for specific units to promote combines arms between squads that lack in a another area.Honestly it's not really my idea, it's taken straight out of the military hand book issue to me years ago, while true my squad was issued AT4 rocket launchers, we are ordered not to engaged armor,anything bigger then a light armor, the military perfered a specialize "AT squad" instead of Reliance on a single squad with multiple roles. Specialization and combine arms is always more flexible and effective for a number of reason that really don't need to go detail here. Its dull that now its spam as many volks as possible for Germans and allies figuring out all game how to deal with the volks. Its a shame that eliminates any light and in some cases medium armor play altogether, I know I would love to use the vet one bonus for the Sherman but at this point buying two Sherman's would put me at a disadvantage with army's composed of volks.
22 Dec 2015, 14:11 PM
#194
avatar of Teryuo

Posts: 12

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Dec 2015, 01:09 AMGenObi

snip


I agree more or less. The volks are a Frankenstein unit that seem to be a sort of troublesome lynch-pin for OKW and I find it kind of weird that they decided to weaken combined arms for OKW in this way. I preferred the older, weaker volks.

22 Dec 2015, 17:03 PM
#195
avatar of GenObi

Posts: 522

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Dec 2015, 14:11 PMTeryuo


I agree more or less. The volks are a Frankenstein unit that seem to be a sort of troublesome lynch-pin for OKW and I find it kind of weird that they decided to weaken combined arms for OKW in this way. I preferred the older, weaker volks.



I find it kinda ironic that the volks act more like super soldiers then obers considering they can engage all types of targets and reasonably win. I would even argue the 5 durable squad acts more like a train frontline soldier Gren from the wermarcht.After all my history Prof always said, after seeing past the propaganda of the time period the only real difference between the VOLKSstrum and VOLKSgrendier is the uniforms and at least one guy in the squad knows what's he's doing, lol.
22 Dec 2015, 19:54 PM
#196
avatar of ZeaviS

Posts: 160

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Dec 2015, 17:03 PMGenObi


I find it kinda ironic that the volks act more like super soldiers then obers considering they can engage all types of targets and reasonably win. I would even argue the 5 durable squad acts more like a train frontline soldier Gren from the wermarcht.After all my history Prof always said, after seeing past the propaganda of the time period the only real difference between the VOLKSstrum and VOLKSgrendier is the uniforms and at least one guy in the squad knows what's he's doing, lol.


They aren't that strong with a schrek vs infantry, rifles and ISs will still beat them, especially with upgraded weapons.
22 Dec 2015, 20:21 PM
#197
avatar of GenObi

Posts: 522

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Dec 2015, 19:54 PMZeaviS


They aren't that strong with a schrek vs infantry, rifles and ISs will still beat them, especially with upgraded weapons.


Reason why I used the word "reasonable" and not "out right beat". But that exactly the problem, for me to gain a "advantage"I would need to spend 150 m and 15 fuel + 60 mun at the rate 280mp per rifle, at the cost of 28 to reinforce.

If I "won" a engagement with rifle+bar engagement I will not doubtfuly lose a single model in BEST case scenario, not accounting the lucky instant Rng K.O of a model by shrecks shot and the destruction of cover usually needed by allue squads to remain vaible.

Typically since the only unit that can at engage at long range as allie is the IS, rifle need to close the gap in "mid" range which often results in a lost of a model to get in position. Not only the mp bleed of rifles and IS high, even a "victory" engagement is costly.

NOW all that is FINE since we are going with the whole "Nazi Germany super army" theme that we are fanscinated now a days (which of course comes at the cost of reality).

The problem is to counter infantry play is the usage of vehicles and it becomes a huge problem with you equip a rather cheap squad, tier 1 and most importantly (problem is not the weapon, it's how many available) the spambility of the the weapon with no real downside.

Unlike a popular counter-argument (barely qualifies but it's there) the zook has clear disadvantages, mainly lack of damage (80dmg vs 120 dmg) lack of range and most importantly lack of penetration, which is key.

As it stands there is no real reason to build any other type of unit the volks + armor vehicles your choice due to cost per effect meta. Not they are "great" (unless your referring to super volks of days past) But cost effective...

Thus the superman comment, lack of any real down side, cheap, available early and reasonably effect all target types seems super to me...
22 Dec 2015, 23:49 PM
#198
avatar of WeißAlchimist

Posts: 112

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Dec 2015, 19:57 PMRemo
Seriously, it's tiring now. It's actually making me despise one of my favorite games. Just remove the schrecks and give them fausts already and they are fine. If someone whines that they "Need an upgrade" then give them a 2 MP44 upgrade for 60 or whatever, just remove the freaking schrecks.

The game is freaking BORING on allies side because of this. You join a game, see 2 OKW and you want to kill yourself.

Fix it already...


jump backJump back to quoted post15 Dec 2015, 20:01 PMRemo


1 month max what?

We have to deal with this hell for 1 month and then they are going to remove schrecks?

Or 1 month before I put a bullet into my left kidney?


jump backJump back to quoted post15 Dec 2015, 20:37 PMRemo


I know you're trolling, but that aside I don't ever see US bazooka blobbing aside from the occasional lulworthy escheblob that fails miserably.

The reason why is because USF can't cost effectively blob like OKW can with volks.

Edit: Sorry the blobbing part of my response is more for A.Schwarzenschnitzel


CRY MORE PLEASE!

Also l2p.

Usf Blobs are far, far more effective.

Just dont try and counter volks blobs with vehicles...

Hnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnng.
23 Dec 2015, 01:34 AM
#199
avatar of ZeaviS

Posts: 160

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Dec 2015, 20:21 PMGenObi


Reason why I used the word "reasonable" and not "out right beat". But that exactly the problem, for me to gain a "advantage"I would need to spend 150 m and 15 fuel + 60 mun at the rate 280mp per rifle, at the cost of 28 to reinforce.

If I "won" a engagement with rifle+bar engagement I will not doubtfuly lose a single model in BEST case scenario, not accounting the lucky instant Rng K.O of a model by shrecks shot and the destruction of cover usually needed by allue squads to remain vaible.

Typically since the only unit that can at engage at long range as allie is the IS, rifle need to close the gap in "mid" range which often results in a lost of a model to get in position. Not only the mp bleed of rifles and IS high, even a "victory" engagement is costly.

NOW all that is FINE since we are going with the whole "Nazi Germany super army" theme that we are fanscinated now a days (which of course comes at the cost of reality).

The problem is to counter infantry play is the usage of vehicles and it becomes a huge problem with you equip a rather cheap squad, tier 1 and most importantly (problem is not the weapon, it's how many available) the spambility of the the weapon with no real downside.

Unlike a popular counter-argument (barely qualifies but it's there) the zook has clear disadvantages, mainly lack of damage (80dmg vs 120 dmg) lack of range and most importantly lack of penetration, which is key.

As it stands there is no real reason to build any other type of unit the volks + armor vehicles your choice due to cost per effect meta. Not they are "great" (unless your referring to super volks of days past) But cost effective...

Thus the superman comment, lack of any real down side, cheap, available early and reasonably effect all target types seems super to me...


Well not exactly. Baring the RNG of schreks, riles beat volks without upgrades at all ranges, assuming equals levels of vet and even more so when rifles are vet3. Bars and lmgs just make it even more favorable. I'd be more than happy to test this out with you if you wish.

The counter argument with zooks is fair because you can buy 2 for 100 munition, where a single schrek costs 90. So while the pen is less, you're doing 160 damage vs 120 and they fire faster, and they are on a squad that is more durable.
23 Dec 2015, 02:00 AM
#200
avatar of Rappy

Posts: 526







CRY MORE PLEASE!

Also l2p.

Usf Blobs are far, far more effective.

Just dont try and counter volks blobs with vehicles...

Hnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnng.

This!
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