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Shouldn't UKF have AT snare?

30 Nov 2015, 10:38 AM
#21
avatar of Myself

Posts: 677

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Nov 2015, 10:30 AMAladdin


U call that snare?!!


Something that can cause engine damage (or other affects that reduce performance) to a light vehicle by definition is called a snare...

Critical shot is exactly that...
30 Nov 2015, 10:42 AM
#22
avatar of cr4wler

Posts: 1164

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Nov 2015, 10:33 AMAladdin


I'm glad if noobs like u don't take me seriously :)
this adequately describes your intelligence.


That has nothing to do with ur bullshit comment, I am just saying it's fair and needed for UKF army has snare, and give me a reason why they shouldn't instead of answering bullshit


1. they retain their snare.
2. Its on a cloakable unit with crazy range.
3. They still have one of the highest winrates.

But please, keep hurling insults instead of reasonable arguments.
30 Nov 2015, 10:59 AM
#23
avatar of Muxsus

Posts: 170

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Nov 2015, 10:26 AMcr4wler


Or, you know you could stop being totally one sided, demanding nerfs to axis and buffs to allies, despite winrates clearly indicating that the balance is currently in the allies favor (and has been for all of the last patches). Every patch you cry that the brits will be unplayable, every patch proves you wrong. Maybe if you start being reasonable people will start taking you seriously again.
But posts like this just make you seem crazy.


Last time I checked UKF had a lower winrate than other factions, and was in fact the only faction with a considerable deviation from average.

Right now brits are forced into an early AT gun or get stomped by light vehicles. IMO there shouldn't be a snare, but stronger early AT just like OKW. For starters they could buff the cost-inefficient AEC, or buff piats, or make the 6pounder something other than a pak without stun shot. The lack of snare is faction design, and that is not something we want to take away.
30 Nov 2015, 11:10 AM
#24
avatar of cr4wler

Posts: 1164

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Nov 2015, 10:59 AMMuxsus


Last time I checked UKF had a lower winrate than other factions, and was in fact the only faction with a considerable deviation from average.

Right now brits are forced into an early AT gun or get stomped by light vehicles. IMO there shouldn't be a snare, but stronger early AT just like OKW. For starters they could buff the cost-inefficient AEC, or buff piats, or make the 6pounder something other than a pak without stun shot. The lack of snare is faction design, and that is not something we want to take away.


http://coh2chart.com/ says that UKF are only behind soviets and US in 1v1 winrate (soviets and UKF have fairly low number of games tho, so admittedly one should take both values with a grain of salt, still, all three allied factions have a considerably higher winrate than the two axis ones).

I don't see how having to have AT in order to counter vehicles is something that could be considered bad. when brits were introduced, ostheer was forced to go super early t2 to try and squeeze out a 222 and possibly pak out asap in order to counter the inevitable wasp rush. or after that, the centaur rush, that couldn't even be stopped by paks alone. so there is one unit that UKF has to react to and suddently makes them unplayable? especially if that unit can actually die to small arms and has DPS comparable to most infantry squads (at least when fighting against inf).
30 Nov 2015, 11:19 AM
#25
avatar of AchtAchter

Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3

I played 1vs1 in the balance preview and my tactic was like this.

I planted mines on predictable points and got an At gun out at either 5 minutes against Ostheer or at 7 minutes against okw. If the map doesn't allow predictable points for mines I rushed an AEC,which besides countering all light vehicles, provided usually also support against medium tanks that arrived later.

The other way is going special weapons regiment in order to get boys at sections that can solo light vehicles on their own.

In my opinion the unlock costs for the AEC should be reduced,because effectively it costs as much as a puma(while being worse) since you will never get a second one.

People should learn to play around faction weaknesses instead of asking for mirroring, there are tools given by relic, people should try to learn how to use them. If they turn out inefficient, adjustments have to be made - however for that the patch has to be released first.
30 Nov 2015, 11:37 AM
#26
avatar of pugzii

Posts: 513

I played 1vs1 in the balance preview and my tactic was like this.

I planted mines on predictable points and got an At gun out at either 5 minutes against Ostheer or at 7 minutes against okw. If the map doesn't allow predictable points for mines I rushed an AEC,which besides countering all light vehicles, provided usually also support against medium tanks that arrived later.

The other way is going special weapons regiment in order to get boys at sections that can solo light vehicles on their own.

In my opinion the unlock costs for the AEC should be reduced,because effectively it costs as much as a puma(while being worse) since you will never get a second one.

People should learn to play around faction weaknesses instead of asking for mirroring, there are tools given by relic, people should try to learn how to use them. If they turn out inefficient, adjustments have to be made - however for that the patch has to be released first.


What are the weaknesses of okw and ostheer I can exploit as UKF in the early and mid game? There literally are none, every minute your guessing their move to survive. One day you would have commandos or sniper but with nerfs you have no unit to help move aggressive. Please msg me on steam when your next on and play me as UKF because I'm intrigued to see how it goes. It's funny because we all know UKF will be broken this patch and all that's going to happen it they will get a massive over buff next patch, this is the circle of coh coz fan bois aren't neutral to factions and create these situations. I like you acht but you nee to take the okw fanboi hat off and start acting like a stratagist. Okw time for me bois cya in Jan UKF
30 Nov 2015, 12:09 PM
#27
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17583 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Nov 2015, 10:31 AMcr4wler


Sure brah... pak is counter to aec, but 6pdr doesnt counter 222... or sniper doesnt counter it as well. Or small arms. (Not even mentioning piats)


Are you really trying to tell me that ATG+AT snare is as valid as ATG alone?

And HF countering 222 with sniper below vet1.
You shoot once, 10 sec later you have dead sniper and 50% hp 222.

Totally not ironic that you quote a post that says 6pdr doesnt counter the 222 only to say that pak counters aec...

What I find ironic is you saying something I didn't.
30 Nov 2015, 12:17 PM
#28
avatar of cr4wler

Posts: 1164

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Nov 2015, 12:09 PMKatitof


Are you really trying to tell me that ATG+AT snare is as valid as ATG alone?

And HF countering 222 with sniper below vet1.
You shoot once, 10 sec later you have dead sniper and 50% hp 222.


What I find ironic is you saying something I didn't.


because pak has the at snare at vet 0, like the ukf sniper amirite?
and please go back and look at your post and the one you quoted.

or read your current post again, where you say that the brit sniper can bring a 222 down to half health before dieing... now image what would happen if there was a 6pdr nearby, or any other unit for that matter.

lemme guess, a ost sniper dieing to, for example, a bren is a l2p issue, but brit sniper dieing to 222 is something that is completely unavoidable, right? right...
30 Nov 2015, 12:31 PM
#30
avatar of Bulgakov

Posts: 987

Sov scout - t1 1.5 mins
UKF Bren - t1 1 min
USF AC - t2 5 mins

Ostheer AC - t2 6 mins
OKW Kubel - t1 30 seconds
OKW flak ht -t2 5 mins (future patch)
Luchs - (can anyone give timing for Luchs in new patch?)

By the time any serious vehicle comes out, there is ample time to tech to an AT gun.


Or to put it in a language you understand and use against other forum members: "lol u noob, l2p, get AT gun, derp."
30 Nov 2015, 12:46 PM
#31
avatar of AchtAchter

Posts: 1604 | Subs: 3

Sov scout - t1 1.5 mins
UKF Bren - t1 1 min
USF AC - t2 5 mins

Ostheer AC - t2 6 mins
OKW Kubel - t1 30 seconds
OKW flak ht -t2 5 mins (future patch)
Luchs - (can anyone give timing for Luchs in new patch?)

By the time any serious vehicle comes out, there is ample time to tech to an AT gun.


Or to put it in a language you understand and use against other forum members: "lol u noob, l2p, get AT gun, derp."


Luchs comes out at the same time as Stuart, around minute 7. The problem is that a AT gun can be circlestrafed. That means you eat a shot with the Luchs, drive behind the AT gun and there's nothing else that can be done. You need a mine an AEC or a 2nd AT gun that screens the first.
30 Nov 2015, 13:28 PM
#32
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17583 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Nov 2015, 12:17 PMcr4wler


because pak has the at snare at vet 0, like the ukf sniper amirite?

Do you play some magical no-gren builds?
Did pfaust was removed from grens?

or read your current post again, where you say that the brit sniper can bring a 222 down to half health before dieing... now image what would happen if there was a 6pdr nearby, or any other unit for that matter.

Sniper will bring 222 to 75% health. I've already included potential damage from tommies.
There won't be 6pounder as fast as you can generally pump 222 vs brits faster, especially if you play osttruppen and gain map control incomparably faster.

lemme guess, a ost sniper dieing to, for example, a bren is a l2p issue, but brit sniper dieing to 222 is something that is completely unavoidable, right? right...


Yeah, I'd say ost sniper dying to not really maneuverable, bulky vehicle is an l2p issue, because where were your grens with faust to protect it? Why was your sniper there alone without any support?

And since brits don't have AT snare on their main inf and now its vet ability for a sniper, well, you do the math here-if you are able to.
30 Nov 2015, 13:33 PM
#33
avatar of cr4wler

Posts: 1164

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Nov 2015, 13:28 PMKatitof

Do you play some magical no-gren builds?
Did pfaust was removed from grens?


Sniper will bring 222 to 75% health. I've already included potential damage from tommies.
There won't be 6pounder as fast as you can generally pump 222 vs brits faster, especially if you play osttruppen and gain map control incomparably faster.



Yeah, I'd say ost sniper dying to not really maneuverable, bulky vehicle is an l2p issue, because where were your grens with faust to protect it? Why was your sniper there alone without any support?

And since brits don't have AT snare on their main inf and now its vet ability for a sniper, well, you do the math here-if you are able to.


so now you throw in grens as well, with their incredible unlimited range fausts? well then tell me how a brit sniper with an ATG can get killed by a 222. oh you didnt have an ATG around? why was your sniper there alone without any support? looks like we got a l2p issue... i smell some bias here.
30 Nov 2015, 13:57 PM
#34
avatar of braciszek

Posts: 2053

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Nov 2015, 13:33 PMcr4wler
i smell some bias here.


Huh.
30 Nov 2015, 14:29 PM
#35
avatar of Aladdin

Posts: 959



Luchs comes out at the same time as Stuart, around minute 7. The problem is that a AT gun can be circlestrafed. That means you eat a shot with the Luchs, drive behind the AT gun and there's nothing else that can be done. You need a mine an AEC or a 2nd AT gun that screens the first.


what if UKF's AT gun gets flanked at some stage, early? does that mean a half health luchs or Ost flame ht should be able to destroy UKF's whole army, because they don't have access to snare unlike all other armies that such a thing can not happen to theirs?!!!

that's one of my points!
30 Nov 2015, 14:36 PM
#36
avatar of Myself

Posts: 677

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Nov 2015, 14:29 PMAladdin


what if UKF's AT gun gets flanked at some stage, early? does that mean a half health luchs or Ost flame ht should be able to destroy UKF's whole army, because they don't have access to snare unlike all other armies that such a thing can not happen to theirs?!!!

that's one of my points!


A vet 1 UKF sniper will cause engine damage to Luch with a critical shot, pure and simply.

OKW also do no have snare in their main infantry they do not even have snipers.


Going T2 and fast luch leaves OKW without healing (other than medic kits).

Piats against vehicles with engine damage are very efficient and the combo of AT snare and gamon bomb would make biritsh blob uncounter-able by tanks...

there are always mines available to UKF...
30 Nov 2015, 14:45 PM
#37
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17583 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Nov 2015, 14:36 PMMyself

OKW also do no have snare in their main infantry they do not even have snipers.

Which means they have no reason to protect 1 model squad as it doesn't exist.
Also, its not like volks can't handle light armor, because you know, shrecks.


Going T2 and fast luch leaves OKW without healing (other than medic kits).

Piats against vehicles with engine damage are very efficient and the combo of AT snare and gamon bomb would make biritsh blob uncounter-able by tanks...

there are always mines available to UKF...


Have you played on the preview?
100% muni allows you to freely use sturms medkits, healing until med truck isn't an issue at all.
And no, PIATs are effective vs HEAVY or medium vehicles with damaged engine, lights are still too fast and to small for PIATs to reliably hit them. I've had situations where due to PIAT scatter I couldn't hit stationary puma or bunkers. There is nothing effective about PIAT except dealing with super heavies.
30 Nov 2015, 14:47 PM
#38
avatar of cr4wler

Posts: 1164

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Nov 2015, 14:29 PMAladdin


what if UKF's AT gun gets flanked at some stage, early? does that mean a half health luchs or Ost flame ht should be able to destroy UKF's whole army, because they don't have access to snare unlike all other armies that such a thing can not happen to theirs?!!!

that's one of my points!


you mean like the centaur in the previous patch? i didn't see you complain about that... or that the wasp outranged grens faust by a mile. or that chruchills can throw nades on AT guns. or that crocs decrew at guns from the front faster than they can get a 2nd/3rd shot in. but, yes, i know.... l2p, smoke, flank, random meme, insult, expletive.
30 Nov 2015, 14:55 PM
#39
avatar of Myself

Posts: 677

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Nov 2015, 14:45 PMKatitof

Which means they have no reason to protect 1 model squad as it doesn't exist.



Read understand reply.

What I wrote is direct answer to the statement that all other faction (accept UKF) have access to at snares which simply wrong. OKW have only doctrinal access (and P. fusilier snare is extremely inefficient) and brits have both Doctrinal and the sniper.


jump backJump back to quoted post30 Nov 2015, 14:45 PMKatitof

I've had situations where due to PIAT scatter I couldn't hit stationary puma or bunkers. There is nothing effective about PIAT except dealing with super heavies.


If you can hit stationary targets as bunkers you simply don't know how to use Piats.
As any other weapon with high scatter one has to use attack ground...

Instead of trying to prove that other do not know the game try to be constrictive for change and actually make a suggestion.

Simply adding AT snare to I.S. as proposed in the original post is bad suggestion that will create more problems, than will solve. So either suggest something or stop posting pls.
30 Nov 2015, 15:06 PM
#40
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17583 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Nov 2015, 14:55 PMMyself



Read understand reply.

What I wrote is direct answer to the statement that all other faction (accept UKF) have access to at snares which simply wrong. OKW have only doctrinal access and brits have both Doctrinal and the sniper.

You're 100% correct here.
But as I've said, OKW compensates well for lack of snare with best infantry AT as well as no unit it would have to protect from lights that couldn't handle itself when flanked.

If you can hit stationary targets as bunkers you simply don't know how to use Piats.
As any other weapon with high scatter one has to use attack ground...

I don't think you know how scatter works...
Right clicking to attack or attack ground is irrelevant, there'll be exactly the same scatter values and exactly the same RNG.

You can use attack ground if your projectiles overshoot or don't go far enough reliably-PIAT projectiles are all over the place.

Instead of trying to prove that other do not know the game try to be constrictive for change and actually make a suggestion.

Simply adding AT snare to I.S. as proposed in the original post is bad suggestion that will create more problem than it will solve. So either suggest something or stop posting pls.


In case you've missed it, I've suggested that moving brit sniper snare to vet1 (and removing the flare, which actually was useful for the sniper because of camo and flare range, which encourages aggressive positioning as well as gives it unique spotter role) is a bad move that shouldn't happen.

222 can react to sniper really fast, if you have infantry tracking vet1, you can just YOLO rush the sniper as you'll be aware of its position and potential AT position.

Current dynamic means yes, they counter each other, but I don't see it as a bad thing given nothing else is able to reliably counter lights without investing hefty amount of fuel.

PIATs obviously will not be better, they work ok within their niche, but that niche is attacking heavy and super heavy armor, not lights.
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