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russian armor

vickers vs hmg42

23 Feb 2016, 17:40 PM
#41
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

Vickers is high damage, low suppression. Vet one is godly in buildings

MG-42 is high surpression, medium damage. MG-42 vet 1 is godly

USF 50 cal (largest bullet) garbage damage and suppression, dies to everything


MG42 DPS: 7.85 / 25.85(double with vet1 active)

Vickers DPS: 7.33 / 34.86

.50 cal DPS: 9.09 / 27.30

Only far DPS is relevant, because no squad ever gets to receive this at close.

Why do people keep pulling stuff out of their rears instead of doing facts checks.....
23 Feb 2016, 17:43 PM
#42
avatar of Napalm

Posts: 1595 | Subs: 2

Katitof, how does the DHSK stack up?
23 Feb 2016, 17:46 PM
#43
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Feb 2016, 17:43 PMNapalm
Katitof, how does the DHSK stack up?


9.28 / 30.15

So pretty much glorified .50 cal that is clumzy to use and move around.

If you play team game and have a choice between calling DSHK and having your USF team mate dropping you .50 cal, pick .50 cal.

And just for comparison, the Maxim:

7.05 / 13.42

Not much of a difference long range and because Maxims cooldown is dynamic, the DPS at close range is higher then theoretical one, but since pretty much only long range DPS is relevant(because squads will just retreat when caught at any other range) there isn't any need for details here.

The only reason to get DSHK is pretty much if you NEVER plan to go T2 DSHK is a supplement, not valid, cost effective replacement justifying less mobility and higher cost. At least in my opinion.
23 Feb 2016, 18:07 PM
#44
avatar of Bananenheld

Posts: 1593 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Feb 2016, 17:40 PMKatitof


MG42 DPS: 7.85 / 25.85(double with vet1 active)

Vickers DPS: 7.33 / 34.86

.50 cal DPS: 9.09 / 27.30

Only far DPS is relevant, because no squad ever gets to receive this at close.

Why do people keep pulling stuff out of their rears instead of doing facts checks.....

WhY do people keep Pulling stats out of rears instead of playing the game?


Vickers kill more /faster models ingame, due low suppression, because you know what baditof? Supression decreases the received damage/accuracy so it actually kills faster ingame but you cant see that on your theorycrafting paper.

Play.the.game.
23 Feb 2016, 18:17 PM
#45
avatar of Airborne

Posts: 281


WhY do people keep Pulling stats out of rears instead of playing the game?


Vickers kill more /faster models ingame, due low suppression, because you know what baditof? Supression decreases the received damage/accuracy so it actually kills faster ingame but you cant see that on your theorycrafting paper.

Play.the.game.


You know what suppersion keeps a squad in the arc of fire. If a mg doesn't suppres fast enough a squad crawls out of the arc. Suppresion is not a bad thing.
23 Feb 2016, 18:23 PM
#46
avatar of Bananenheld

Posts: 1593 | Subs: 1



You know what suppersion keeps a squad in the arc of fire. If a mg doesn't suppres fast enough a squad crawls out of the arc. Suppresion is not a bad thing.

Yes but that's entirely off my post and baditofs one.

Vickers does more damage than all other mgs due it's low suppression. A yellow supressed squad has 0.5 recieved accuracy, and since it takes 3 bursts rougly to supressed a squad with vicker while mg42 does need 1 it does a whole lot of more damage, since accuracy=dps it's 50% more damage than other mgs as long as their are not supressed.

Just a classic example of only reading stats and not playing the game.
23 Feb 2016, 18:33 PM
#48
avatar of Hans G. Schultz

Posts: 875 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Feb 2016, 18:26 PMKatitof
I'm not sure if you're retarded on purpose or its a natural gift.

I gave raw stats. Nothing more.
You're reading the stuff that isn't even there.

You're completely clueless on what people ask for and what answer is.

If you feel like supplementing info, then pull your head out of your ass and do just that-post another info.
You're a HUGE dick, but I'm not calling you one after every single post you make.

You're simply another tool trying to get into flame war.
Just wait until official forums are up and running again, then rot like you can go back there.

He just mis-understood what the original question was; therefore, misunderstanding what your answer was about. It's these small things that starts flame wars, like a kindling twig in a dry woodpile.
23 Feb 2016, 18:34 PM
#49
avatar of Myself

Posts: 677

I am under the impression that the difference in HMG performance comes down to faction design...

HMG42 is meant to be superior due to faction design...

Vickers is meant to be more expensive and superior in garrison due to faction design...
23 Feb 2016, 18:36 PM
#50
avatar of Bananenheld

Posts: 1593 | Subs: 1

nope karbinder. skarbinds post was right with vickers is a high damage, low suppression mg, katitof posted a awesome statslist which says "nope same dps as mg42 while 0.5clbr has most clost range" which is true on paper but ingame it is very true. his post was accurate and katitof just came in with paper stats without taking all the ingame factors into mind and beeing arrogant. nothing missunderstood.

lol at official forum, i dont even have an account there, but you do buddy. :sibHyena:
23 Feb 2016, 19:04 PM
#51
avatar of CieZ

Posts: 1468 | Subs: 4

Vickers is better in buildings/trenches and an amazing HMG. It's great at what it does.

Mg42 is also great at what it does, probably slightly weaker than the vickers all things considered (there are plenty of extremely relevant stats being left out of this discussion like burst length).

The extra range in buildings at vet 1 is insanely good and the vickers can self spot (unless this was reverted?) more things that throwing stats at each other instead of playing the game fail to exemplify.

Both HMGs are strong and cost effective... Why is this a thread?
23 Feb 2016, 19:15 PM
#52
avatar of FG127820

Posts: 101



The MG42 doesn't get 25% more range/sight in buildings/garrisons at Vet 1, and the penetration buff at Vet 2 gives it more pen than the HMG42.


True extra range is amazing, however penetration buff isn't that noticeable; compare it with the 15 muni incendiary AP rounds that pummels everything that's not a light tank.
23 Feb 2016, 19:54 PM
#53
avatar of Mr.Smith

Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Feb 2016, 19:04 PMCieZ
Vickers is better in buildings/trenches and an amazing HMG. It's great at what it does.

Mg42 is also great at what it does, probably slightly weaker than the vickers all things considered (there are plenty of extremely relevant stats being left out of this discussion like burst length).

The extra range in buildings at vet 1 is insanely good and the vickers can self spot (unless this was reverted?) more things that throwing stats at each other instead of playing the game fail to exemplify.

Both HMGs are strong and cost effective... Why is this a thread?


The Vickers can only self spot if you recrew it with Tommies that have been upgraded with Pyrotechnics supplies. However:
- You will be paying a 35MP reinforcement cost on the crew (Tommies will use their old reinforcement cost due to a bug)
- Pyrotechnics supplies suffers from the same woes that offensive veterancy does; only the initial models receive upgraded sight

Having said, that, I agree with everything you said, except for one thing; How can the lengthier burst of the Vickers ever be considered as an advantage (and not a disadvantage):
- Even with the burst length factored, Vickers definitely deals less suppression per unit of time
- Longer burst length means that the enemy can dive out-of-sight/in cover during your burst, and thus receive less suppression/damage

Sure, if the burst length of the MG42 and the Vickers were equal, the Vickers would be even worse. However, what did you have in mind?
23 Feb 2016, 19:57 PM
#54
avatar of NEVEC

Posts: 708 | Subs: 1

Vickers is best hmg in a game, outperforms hmg42 by far. Imho.
23 Feb 2016, 21:30 PM
#55
avatar of CieZ

Posts: 1468 | Subs: 4



The Vickers can only self spot if you recrew it with Tommies that have been upgraded with Pyrotechnics supplies. However:
- You will be paying a 35MP reinforcement cost on the crew (Tommies will use their old reinforcement cost due to a bug)
- Pyrotechnics supplies suffers from the same woes that offensive veterancy does; only the initial models receive upgraded sight

Having said, that, I agree with everything you said, except for one thing; How can the lengthier burst of the Vickers ever be considered as an advantage (and not a disadvantage):
- Even with the burst length factored, Vickers definitely deals less suppression per unit of time
- Longer burst length means that the enemy can dive out-of-sight/in cover during your burst, and thus receive less suppression/damage

Sure, if the burst length of the MG42 and the Vickers were equal, the Vickers would be even worse. However, what did you have in mind?


The vickers should always be able to self spot in a garrison at vet 1 but I thought it has more natural line of sight as well? I may be remembering wrong or this was something changed in the old Brit alpha. Maybe some one could dig up the stats for us? I'm not at home.

As for the longer bursts I feel like the vickers spends a lot more time shooting and a lot less time reloading. Once a unit gets suppressed it is effectively stuck in the arc in most cases anyways. Always feels like my Vickers do a lot more damage than my MG42s even though I love using both units.
23 Feb 2016, 22:39 PM
#56
avatar of Bananenheld

Posts: 1593 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Feb 2016, 21:30 PMCieZ


The vickers should always be able to self spot in a garrison at vet 1 but I thought it has more natural line of sight as well? I may be remembering wrong or this was something changed in the old Brit alpha. Maybe some one could dig up the stats for us? I'm not at home.

As for the longer bursts I feel like the vickers spends a lot more time shooting and a lot less time reloading. Once a unit gets suppressed it is effectively stuck in the arc in most cases anyways. Always feels like my Vickers do a lot more damage than my MG42s even though I love using both units.

it does more damage due lower suppresion. it wont pin instantly like an mg42 and therefore the squad which is shot at wont get the -50% recieved accuarcy bonus from beeing yellow suppressed.
23 Feb 2016, 22:49 PM
#57
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1


it does more damage due lower suppresion. it wont pin instantly like an mg42 and therefore the squad which is shot at wont get the -50% recieved accuarcy bonus from beeing yellow suppressed.

Technically though, I'm pretty sure pinning doesn't cause give them a received accuracy bonus anymore.

And of course, HMG42s also can't actually pin instantly unless you're right next to them, thank Quinn.

TL;DR Pointless pedantry
23 Feb 2016, 23:04 PM
#58
avatar of RedDevilCG

Posts: 154

Yeah if you want actual damage, you don't want to suppress quickly because suppression basically neuters damage done to the suppressed squad. But if you're not looking for the suppression then why use an MG really?
23 Feb 2016, 23:09 PM
#59
avatar of whitesky00

Posts: 468

Yeah if you want actual damage, you don't want to suppress quickly because suppression basically neuters damage done to the suppressed squad. But if you're not looking for the suppression then why use an MG really?


+1
23 Feb 2016, 23:25 PM
#60
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930


Vickers kill more /faster models ingame, due low suppression, because you know what baditof? Supression decreases the received damage/accuracy so it actually kills faster ingame but you cant see that on your theorycrafting paper.


really, lower suppression is an advantage? it's a trade off at best. Mg42 have both great suppression and damage that allow it to perform crowd control.

Vicker's lower suppression make it riskier to use.
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