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A letter to Relic COH2 Game balance team

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9 Apr 2015, 16:38 PM
#181
avatar of sickpetey

Posts: 101

They still do damage to infantry with regular guns the only problem is the current cost of them since I always thought the cost was high because of the elite status + LMG.

Why would noone buy stg anymore? It ignores cover and with veterancy on obers its a very powerful weapon.

At the end of the day they are still human like other units in OKW so they will still die from khm tank shells and high concentration of lead in their bloodstream.
9 Apr 2015, 16:49 PM
#182
avatar of dasheepeh

Posts: 2062 | Subs: 1



From how I see it, this is the truth. I wrote the facts. You can like it or it. There are so many examples I could give you but I don't think that would make any difference. And you know what, I played against him and he blobed like shit and above that he had an aditude. So sorry that I don't trust his point of view. I trust me eyes more than his playercard! I am not a sheep.

And a little help for you, watch some casts with him and look how he is playing and also what the casters say.

P.S. I play the game and my first goal is to have fun and then to win, so I dont blob at all. Not for fun and not to climb the ladders! Winning is not everything. And how can you take a guy seriously when he says the the truck pushing is strat. GTFO !!!


:foreveralone:
9 Apr 2015, 16:51 PM
#183
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1



:foreveralone:

But I thought that was just a name and you were a dog-pope?
9 Apr 2015, 17:05 PM
#184
avatar of dasheepeh

Posts: 2062 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Apr 2015, 16:51 PMVuther

But I thought that was just a name and you were a dog-pope?


Maybe both? :megusta:
9 Apr 2015, 17:05 PM
#185
avatar of The amazing Chandler

Posts: 1355



:foreveralone:


I don't think so but whatever...
9 Apr 2015, 17:10 PM
#186
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1



Maybe both? :megusta:

:o
9 Apr 2015, 18:10 PM
#187
avatar of Darc Reaver

Posts: 194

Just because you're good at playing this game doesn't mean you know even the slightest stuff about balancing.

Good player = can adjust to the game very well (abuse imbalances to overcome enemie's imbalances)
Just sayin'
9 Apr 2015, 18:21 PM
#188
avatar of Thunderhun

Posts: 1593

Just because you're good at playing this game doesn't mean you know even the slightest stuff about balancing.

Good player = can adjust to the game very well (abuse imbalances to overcome enemie's imbalances)
Just sayin'


+ 1

leaderboard /=/ skill in this game
9 Apr 2015, 18:35 PM
#189
avatar of Jaedrik

Posts: 446 | Subs: 2

Just because you're good at playing this game doesn't mean you know even the slightest stuff about balancing.

Good player = can adjust to the game very well (abuse imbalances to overcome enemie's imbalances)
Just sayin'

This is another problem with too many responses to this thread.
Paul may or may not be playing off of his status as a high ranked player, but it doesn't matter in the slightest.
This is akin to saying that "You may be a good NASCAR driver, but you don't know anything about tire grip physics." It's asinine because it accuses them without actually demonstrating that they don't know, especially because the thing relates to what they do well. Taken further, it could imply that the other person is wrong simply for having the opinions they have, and that is all evidence required to show they know nothing about said subject.

How about you stop attacking Paul and actually criticize the changes in question?
9 Apr 2015, 18:47 PM
#190
avatar of Jackiebrown

Posts: 657

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Apr 2015, 23:22 PMGiaA


Truck pushing is an exploit that is not intended by the devs so you can't compare it to units being overpowered. Also: How do you want to nerf truck pushing ? It's either in the game or not. There's nothing in between.


Im also pretty sure that the dev's came out and said that trucks being used that way was never intended. So he is calling back for something never intended to be in the game in the first place? Geez... I have no words for this.
9 Apr 2015, 19:24 PM
#191
avatar of Nuclear Arbitor
Patrion 28

Posts: 2470



the thing is USF actually doesnt need as many options because their important units unlock rather quickly and they can handle a variety of situations with the units on hand. riflemen are quite strong throughout the early and mid game, and they can continue the aggression with lts and light vehicles, where as okw has relatively easily beaten units in the early game and then struggle to get out relevant vehicles. the majority of their DPS is focused around the sturmpioneers which can be focused down pretty easily by the more numerous rifles, and as paula mentioned rifles beat volks grenadiers pretty much all the time on a 1 to 1 basis.


there are two issues with the faction design. one is whether they are interesting or not. USF is boring as fuck for the first couple minutes because, non-doctrinally, they have 2 infantry and a support unit. OKW i find less boring early but they're boring for a lot longer because their reduced fuel income means they have reduced access to half their rooster.

the other is balance. USF has a lot of problems with suppression early on but i agree that once they get t1 there isn't anything they lack counter to until med tanks start coming out. OKW has some problems with suppression, particularly maxims in garrisons, but they have a much more balanced early game than USF. OKW can be very strong, provided they make the right purchase with their first set of fuel and don't lose the vehicle.

tl;dr: USF is very boring to play early game but teching covers the gaps in early functionality. OKW is not as boring to play but has a harder time covering the gaps in their early functionality.
9 Apr 2015, 19:26 PM
#192
avatar of IpKaiFung
Benefactor 115

Posts: 1683 | Subs: 2


Further, don't forget the law of subjective valuation. The fact that the FGC respect it now, the fact that it has such large tournaments and such a large playerbase after nearly 15 years, and the mere fact it has such mechanical depth, all lends to the 'one of the greatest games ever' statement. I didn't say best ever, just one of the greatest. I, for example, love Third Strike, and see it as a peer among the greats such as Brood War, Counter Strike Source, just like Melee. I understand if you don't think its pedestal is deserved, but you must grant that there are many who do.


Third strike is also a great game, probably responsible for one of the most famous events in competitive gaming but there were some other great games at the time like guilty gear, soul calibur, virtua fighter 4, tekken tag tournament, CvS2 and Marvel 2 and so on. I find it very disrespectful to discard those games because they all had their wonderful moments and compelling gameplay. They all have their flaws but so does melee (poor character viability being the big one.)

I'm not saying that melee doesn't deserve it's pedestal but that the pedestal should be much bigger to accommodate more games.

Back on topic I don't believe the balance changes would make much of a difference, the problems with CoH2 are in my opinion much more fundamental and are:

  • The WW2 scenario is not widely appealing. It is a conflict that people around the world still have many issues with, especially in far east asia. People are also still burnt out from the massive amount of WW2 games that were released at the turn of the century. ( Can't really do much about this however it's down to marketing to show gamers that there is a very compelling game to spend their time with)

  • It doesn't play like other RTS games, no workers or mining and very hard counters (infantry vs tanks) leads to a very unfamiliar experience to people who are veterans in other RTS games. The only real way to learn how to play the game (unit interactions and what upgrades do) is by playing a lot and learning through trial and error. The game needs to be more transparent in helping people learn the unit interactions and what the upgrades do, with better, more detailed tool tips.

  • There's a massive list of micro transactions DLC which influence game play on top of buying the game itself. Which puts off potential players. If you don't buy during a sale you will have to spend $80 to get all four factions and that doesn't give you any extra commanders.

  • You need really powerful hardware to get the game to run at a stable and smooth frame rate. Needing more powerful hardware increases the money you have to spend to play the game.

  • The UI takes up massive computing power, selecting different units can or opening the tac map can give these really irritating stutters that are detrimental to the game play experience.

  • A large amount of bugs that give the player a detrimental feeling while playing, abilities eating ammo but not firing is a big one. Many bugs have been quashed but there are still quite a few in game, many on the trello board.
9 Apr 2015, 19:38 PM
#193
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1



See its called a comparison. I made it really obvious so people like you could get it. Looks like I was wrong to think you could though :facepalm:

See, what it means is there is something completely unfair, and obviously so yet there are idiots defending it to the last.

Here i'll try again:

Truck pushing is a free unit that was having a major impact on the game. It would be just as infuriating and comparable if base turrets could move and kill things.

Free unit impacting the game heavily

Free unit impacting the game heavily

Free unit impacting the game heavily

I dont know this isnt obvious

There is this thing called a mountain, its made of your stubborness. Do the right thing and get over it.

This goes double for you Aladin


I get the comparison, but what you did was essentially godwinning but with slavery instead of Nazi's. If you want people to take your point seriously you can't compare minor things to insanely bad things like real world tragedies.

I'm not defending truck pushing, I'm just having a laff at you comparing a game mechanic to one of the most horrible things in American history lol.
9 Apr 2015, 19:40 PM
#194
avatar of Lenny12346

Posts: 307 | Subs: 3

Dafuq did I just read?
9 Apr 2015, 21:18 PM
#195
avatar of ilGetUSomDay

Posts: 612



I get the comparison, but what you did was essentially godwinning but with slavery instead of Nazi's. If you want people to take your point seriously you can't compare minor things to insanely bad things like real world tragedies.

I'm not defending truck pushing, I'm just having a laff at you comparing a game mechanic to one of the most horrible things in American history lol.


Go for it, its an obvious comparison to get through to dense people who dont seem to understand why its an abuse and not legitimate strategy/skill
9 Apr 2015, 22:18 PM
#196
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930




come watch guards ober

http://www.coh2.org/replay/33279/guards-ptrs-meta


if you were referring to the fight at 31:00, that was 2 guards, 1 con, and one 120mm mortar against your 1 upgrade ober. I don't know what you expected.
9 Apr 2015, 22:28 PM
#197
avatar of Lenny12346

Posts: 307 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Apr 2015, 20:40 PMDeaken


You do realize he's top ranked with all factions, right?


When Paula wrote that oppinion on Obers, I still stopped reading.
Paula is a nice guy though.
9 Apr 2015, 22:35 PM
#198
avatar of Tea Maker Machine

Posts: 270

Truck pushing is a symptom.

Just fix axis' early game and you won't have to win the early engagements by using cheesy bdsm tactics.
9 Apr 2015, 22:42 PM
#199
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17627 | Subs: 9

Truck pushing is a symptom.

Just fix axis' early game and you won't have to win the early engagements by using cheesy bdsm tactics.

Kubel+sturms do whatever they want to conspam and riflespam.
Its also effective against maxims to a point.
The only thing OKW struggles in early game is M3s, but you can solve that by blobbing, all other cases OKW fights on equal terms or have advantage while having advantage in later game as well, but not as big one as they used to.

Truck pushing was bs from day 1 and it wasn't needed for anything short of cheeze from day 1.
9 Apr 2015, 22:52 PM
#200
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1


Kubel+sturms do whatever they want to conspam and riflespam.
Its also effective against maxims to a point.
The only thing OKW struggles in early game is M3s, but you can solve that by blobbing, all other cases OKW fights on equal terms or have advantage while having advantage in later game as well, but not as big one as they used to.

Truck pushing was bs from day 1 and it wasn't needed for anything short of cheeze from day 1.


This is so blatantly wrong I don't even know were to start. Conspam is powerful because it counters the Kubel and sturms. Sturms can't DPS/kill you if they can't close the distance between you before losing their models and the Kuvel isn't hard to overwhelm when you have Oorah!

Riflespam can be semi-less effective due to not having the numbers that Conspam does, but early nades help immensely. OKW early game by design is anemic, they start with the least MP of any faction and the least capping power.

EDIT: And deal with maxims to a point? Christ dude this is cringe worthy, your only going to be able to beat his maxims if he fucks up microing them. OKW doesn't have a early game firepower advantage at all.
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