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13 Feb 2015, 23:44 PM
#121
avatar of Specialka

Posts: 144



Free First Building no earning of fuel required

+

80 actual earned fuel for the PanzerHQ

+

40 for the second building

+

260 fuel for the unit

Total

380 fuel. Thats the cost of the KT to OKWs economy. Of course the small fuel penalty does apply. Map dependant on how much that is actually an impact since starting sector is not counted. More on large maps less on small maps. And if you converted for fuel or not and salvaged.


Then the KT is worth a 260 Fuel unit, no more no less.
13 Feb 2015, 23:51 PM
#122
avatar of Cabreza

Posts: 656



Then the KT is worth a 260 Fuel unit, no more no less.


He means the total fuel required to produce a KT including teching costs, taking into account starting fuel, and assuming no other vehicles are built is 380 fuel. The unit isn't worth 380 fuel but the 380 fuel cost indicates approximate arrival time all things being equal if it is rushed.
14 Feb 2015, 00:21 AM
#123
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

It's dishonest not to adjust the fuel prices for OKW when discussing arrival time and cost because basically all of OKW's unit costs revolve around it, and yes it makes little sense OKW is about spamming infantry but that's what you get when you combine quite large fuel costs with reduced income.

Which is why Iv said multiple times that OKW tanks should cost less fuel but far more manpower to reduce the amount of losses OKW can replace infantry wise will encouraging the player to actually field vehicles.
14 Feb 2015, 00:48 AM
#124
avatar of Cabreza

Posts: 656

It's dishonest not to adjust the fuel prices for OKW when discussing arrival time and cost because basically all of OKW's unit costs revolve around it, and yes it makes little sense OKW is about spamming infantry but that's what you get when you combine quite large fuel costs with reduced income.


It's not necessarily dishonest so much as it is difficult. As Jheartless mentioned there are a lot of variables that can affect just how much fuel income OKW is receiving including map size, fuel conversion, and salvage. OKW never receives less than 66% fuel income (unless converting it to munitions) but depending on those variables their actual fuel income can fluctuate wildly.
14 Feb 2015, 01:16 AM
#125
avatar of dasheepeh

Posts: 2115 | Subs: 1

It's dishonest not to adjust the fuel prices for OKW when discussing arrival time and cost because basically all of OKW's unit costs revolve around it, and yes it makes little sense OKW is about spamming infantry but that's what you get when you combine quite large fuel costs with reduced income.

Which is why Iv said multiple times that OKW tanks should cost less fuel but far more manpower to reduce the amount of losses OKW can replace infantry wise will encouraging the player to actually field vehicles.


damn... i like that idea
14 Feb 2015, 01:38 AM
#126
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

Isn't income 70% due to base point not receiving the penalty?

And there are maps on which is possible to salvage Panthers and some models of PIVs.
Ex: Rails and metal, on which you can get if you spawn south, 15-20fuel early on.

@Alexzandvar if you are not sure regarding numbers, don't state anything.
Ex: you said you were playing at top100 when you are doing so at barely top1000+ as allies. Same with the fuel convertion.

Regarding skill ceiling/floor
EVEN at top200 2v2, OKW is still "ez mode" unless you face those who are top50. Reason is that whatever happens you can always rely on Shrecks, Obers, KT, to carry you despite loses and mistakes you make. All being non-doctrinal units.
The fact is that you can rely on purely mp to stay alive and that is a department on which OKW is cost effective.
14 Feb 2015, 01:59 AM
#127
avatar of QueenRatchet123

Posts: 2280 | Subs: 2

Permanently Banned


A single B4 shot with For Mother Russia will instantly kill a KT.


Do you realize that in order to get a 16 minute KT. u must have Ost on ur team with kuftwaffe support.

Do you also realize that this doctrine counters b4's?

with stuka dive bombs
14 Feb 2015, 05:08 AM
#128
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Feb 2015, 00:48 AMCabreza


It's not necessarily dishonest so much as it is difficult. As Jheartless mentioned there are a lot of variables that can affect just how much fuel income OKW is receiving including map size, fuel conversion, and salvage. OKW never receives less than 66% fuel income (unless converting it to munitions) but depending on those variables their actual fuel income can fluctuate wildly.


The issue is converting robs of you of valuable resources early game which is a killer as you need to get Shreks out ASAP will maintain fuel income to tech up. Yeah if you luck out and get a lot of salvage you will be able to get ahead, but that also probably means you enemy is playing quite poorly so it's probably a win anyway!

The fact is that you can rely on purely mp to stay alive and that is a department on which OKW is cost effective.


Sure you can rely on it to say alive theoretically, but your shreks and Obers won't do jack shit to howitzers and other forms of indirect, which will quickly force you to give ground.
14 Feb 2015, 05:12 AM
#129
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1



damn... i like that idea


It's the best way of ensuring that OKW "feels" like it's as a resource penalty while helping prevent infantry spam. Since most of the OKW vehicles take a fair amount of pop cap your Manpower income will be reduced and will mean it will take longer to get your next tank out. It will would also mean OKW have a little more wiggle room to chose what they make, so we would see more use of things like the Sturmtiger and Jadgpanzer. And since the fuel price of the Sturm and Stuka wouldn't be as high they would vet up more naturally rather than taking forever since they are a high fuel cost unit shooting at cheap MP enemys.
14 Feb 2015, 23:09 PM
#130
avatar of pussyking
Donator 11

Posts: 551

Obers are ridiculous. They a-move an HMG. A 4 men LMG sniper squad on steroids.
14 Feb 2015, 23:14 PM
#131
avatar of Alexzandvar

Posts: 4951 | Subs: 1

Obers exist because OKW lacks a MP only costing anti Infantry unit, they are supposed to be analogous to shock troops, but obviously do better because the MG34 is so fucking insane.

I'm not the first one to say it nor the last, but just give Obers regular StG 44's and get rid of the MG34, and it would also make the IR StG's make more sense to.
15 Feb 2015, 02:58 AM
#132
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

Kubel + Volks + Obers + Panther
Welcome to the most boring meta!
16 Feb 2015, 23:02 PM
#133
avatar of pussyking
Donator 11

Posts: 551

Kubel + Volks + Obers + Panther
Welcome to the most boring meta!


There is a KT/Jagdtiger on top of all that. Like all that was not enough.
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