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The imbalance between Allied and Axis Infantry Anti-tank

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2 Dec 2014, 08:36 AM
#281
avatar of comm_ash
Patrion 14

Posts: 1194 | Subs: 1

I think a good fix for the raketen would be modifying the ready-aim time first, and seeing how it is then. The raketen does quite well later in the game, and is cheap enough to build 2 of, so I think that we should take small steps in changing it. Its biggest weakness is the time it takes to fire the first shot.
2 Dec 2014, 09:16 AM
#282
avatar of Enkidu

Posts: 351

I think a good fix for the raketen would be modifying the ready-aim time first, and seeing how it is then. The raketen does quite well later in the game, and is cheap enough to build 2 of, so I think that we should take small steps in changing it. Its biggest weakness is the time it takes to fire the first shot.

Yup, this is true. It's really annoying and it's the same problem ptrs' have.
2 Dec 2014, 10:15 AM
#283
avatar of JohnnyB

Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1

Changing shrecks handling to Sturmpio? This is the worst idea I ever heard. What would be volks' role then? Just some idiots shooting around? This is your proposed picture:
1. Want decent AI early game? Build sturmpio.
2. Want decent AT early game? Build sturmpio.
3. ...WHAT?

Again, it's not about the shrecks necessarely, it's about USF vehicles. They are to thin.
Or, if you wanna do something about shrecks, I saw some good ideas around here. Like veterancy shouldn't affect accuracy for shrecks. There are other ways. Like allowing a double shreck upgrade for volks for 180 or 190 amo, not a single one for 90. The shreck will come later and the amo investment would be much, much higher. But letting sturmpio carry all the roles, that would create a silly image in game and not only this. OKW early game would be seriously affected and personaly I don't think it's a good idea.
2 Dec 2014, 11:03 AM
#284
avatar of Ztormi

Posts: 249



Again, it's not about the shrecks necessarely, it's about USF vehicles.


Actually I'd say it's about all medium tanks, you can't take full volley with any of them :(
3 Dec 2014, 02:20 AM
#285
avatar of Volsky

Posts: 344

... Make it so hitting vehicles with handheld AT weapons provides ZERO XP? XP gained using handheld AT weapons ruins the vet system.


Impossible to code within the .RGDs.

Might be doable with a ridiculous amount of .scar coding though.
3 Dec 2014, 02:42 AM
#286
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

Changing shrecks handling to Sturmpio? This is the worst idea I ever heard. What would be volks' role then? Just some idiots shooting around? This is your proposed picture:
1. Want decent AI early game? Build sturmpio.
2. Want decent AT early game? Build sturmpio.
3. ...WHAT?

Suffer manpower drain because all you built was sturmpio.
Getting outnumbered because all you built was sturmpio.
3 Dec 2014, 02:46 AM
#287
avatar of braciszek

Posts: 2053

What would be volks' role then? Just some idiots shooting around?


Conscripts. :P

But those have AT nades at least...

But then again, volksgrenadiers are volksgrenadiers - cheapest mainline infantry still has best vet; ive seen good use of basic volks as well. OKW AT can be developed properly without the cheap mainline infantry being the AT (so other areas would be improved) But that still is an ignorant question given that other basic infantry does well without AT weapons and not everything without an LMG is crap. The value of a squad that doesnt burn manpower income is undermined, given that all other OKW infantry are pretty expensive to reinforce.
3 Dec 2014, 04:22 AM
#288
avatar of NinjaWJ

Posts: 2070

i agree with braciszek, even the conscript joke
3 Dec 2014, 08:20 AM
#289
avatar of JohnnyB

Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1


Suffer manpower drain because all you built was sturmpio.
Getting outnumbered because all you built was sturmpio.


Thing is it's not normal for a single unit type to carry all roles. I'm sure there are other ways to handle this "spam" problem. Spam... don't they all do it? Grenadier spam, conscripts spam, maxim spam, rifles spam....
Strange everybody is upset because of spam but everybody does it. Nobody complained about spam in vCoh while paras spam, rangers spam, tommies spam and grenadiers spam were much worst than we see today in coh2. At least in coh2 when you build a tank, the blob thinks twice if it should take it down or avoid it. From this point of view, squad wiping tanks existence is justified.
3 Dec 2014, 09:12 AM
#290
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

Thing is it's not normal for a single unit type to carry all roles.


Panzergrenadiers. Unless you mean repairing, in which case, CoH1 Panzergrenadiers.
3 Dec 2014, 10:44 AM
#291
avatar of JohnnyB

Posts: 2396 | Subs: 1



Panzergrenadiers. Unless you mean repairing, in which case, CoH1 Panzergrenadiers.


Mining.... building....

+ Coh1 panzergrenadiers where the only one infantry unit buildable in T0.... In OKW's case you have 2 infantry units in T0. You propose one to cover all roles while the other will cover nothing. They don't even have a faust. Are volks to durable? They scall to good in veteancy? Ok, make the unit have 4 members. Like I said, there are many solutions, but making one unit to carry all roles seems the worst to me. No offense, it's just my opinion.
3 Dec 2014, 12:41 PM
#292
avatar of Blackart

Posts: 344

How about removing panzershreck from volksgrenadiers and instead giving them Panzerbüchse 39 Anti-tank rifle as ammo upgrade?

3 Dec 2014, 14:07 PM
#293
avatar of some one

Posts: 935

Relic adjust the Abulance to the similar rate of healing as for Sov and Wherm somehow.
3 Dec 2014, 18:56 PM
#294
avatar of WingZero

Posts: 1484

I think Relic should model the Shrek teams to the coh1 PE. OKW should have a "Tank buster" squad with increased man power no muni cost and leave the volks without shrek upgrades.
3 Dec 2014, 19:29 PM
#295
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

How about removing panzershreck from volksgrenadiers and instead giving them Panzerbüchse 39 Anti-tank rifle as ammo upgrade?



Because that leads to Guard's syndrome, bad vs Infantry, bad vs Tanks.
3 Dec 2014, 19:39 PM
#296
avatar of Romeo
Honorary Member Badge
Benefactor 115

Posts: 1970 | Subs: 5

Because that leads to Guard's syndrome, bad vs Infantry, bad vs Tanks.


Volksgrenadiers are a lot cheaper than guards though.
3 Dec 2014, 19:59 PM
#297
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4928

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Dec 2014, 19:39 PMRomeo
Volksgrenadiers are a lot cheaper than guards though.


Being cheaper doesn't mean it needs to be worthless though. An AT Rifle is a downgrade in almost every way, even if it was a free upgrade it would have very limited use. You're basically trading 1/5 your infantry fighting ability (number goes up as you lose men) for a 1/5 chance to scratch a tank every 5 seconds.
3 Dec 2014, 20:07 PM
#298
avatar of Romeo
Honorary Member Badge
Benefactor 115

Posts: 1970 | Subs: 5

Well it would probably not cost 90 munis so you could also get it a lot quicker and be protected against the M20 and M3A1 too. I mean it doesn't have to suck, I think it's an okay suggestion.
4 Dec 2014, 04:46 AM
#299
avatar of comm_ash
Patrion 14

Posts: 1194 | Subs: 1

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea for the panzerbuchse rifle instead of pshreck for grens. Pshreck can then be reduced to 70 mu, and given to sturmpios who are not really spammable. The reason I hear a lot of the time for the shreck on the volks being important is so that OKW can fend of light vehicles, and if anything the panzerbuchse rifle will have a higher DPS and therefore higher value vs. light vehicles.

Of course, such changes will also require a buff for the raketen, most likely a reduction in the weapon "ready-aim" time.

In terms of price, I like the idea to make the AT rifle cost 35 mu, or maybe 50, and then panzerfausts for the squad (AT package). I doubt that guards syndrome will be a problem since volks are not really good AI infantry, and don't lose too much DPS when they swap out a rifle for an AT rifle. It will be similar to the conscript AT package, except that they will have access to one slightly better rifle.
4 Dec 2014, 07:13 AM
#300
avatar of Cabreza

Posts: 656

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea for the panzerbuchse rifle instead of pshreck for grens. Pshreck can then be reduced to 70 mu, and given to sturmpios who are not really spammable. The reason I hear a lot of the time for the shreck on the volks being important is so that OKW can fend of light vehicles, and if anything the panzerbuchse rifle will have a higher DPS and therefore higher value vs. light vehicles.

Of course, such changes will also require a buff for the raketen, most likely a reduction in the weapon "ready-aim" time.

In terms of price, I like the idea to make the AT rifle cost 35 mu, or maybe 50, and then panzerfausts for the squad (AT package). I doubt that guards syndrome will be a problem since volks are not really good AI infantry, and don't lose too much DPS when they swap out a rifle for an AT rifle. It will be similar to the conscript AT package, except that they will have access to one slightly better rifle.


+1

I could really see the panzerbuchse rifle working well for OKW. Particularly if volks were given faust. I would suggest that perhaps sturmpios should mirror PGrens and buy two shrecks for 120+ muni however. That would help consolidate their role as AT infantry and ensure that buying the shreck upgrade is a tactical choice instead of being automatic.
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