Title says it all,double sniper with guards i'm finding extremely difficult as OKW due to lack of counters.Kubel can frighten them a little until guards,but can't really kill.
Flak truck set up and comes after guards.
ISG unreliable.
Basically all they have to do is snipe at the sturmpios which are very costly reinforce and retreat after 2 members down usually.Then volks aren't able to do much vs guards/penals/even cons,and have pretty bad DPS and accuracy on attack move vs sniper..Obers are also very painful to replace.
Only panzerfusiliers are of some value against this.
I think OKW lack of counter against the sniper needs looking at,the 2 man squad sniper is very very difficult for OKW to kill in hands of sensible player.
OKW sniper counter
5 Aug 2014, 12:40 PM
#1
Posts: 1705
5 Aug 2014, 13:08 PM
#2
Posts: 37
my recommendation, after ranked ...
1.Fallschirmjäger/JLI (get out back building) best!
2.Panzerfüsilier blob
3.Stuka zu Fuss
4.Luchs/Ostwind
5.Puma
1.Fallschirmjäger/JLI (get out back building) best!
2.Panzerfüsilier blob
3.Stuka zu Fuss
4.Luchs/Ostwind
5.Puma
5 Aug 2014, 13:15 PM
#3
Posts: 89
ost sniper is deadlier than soviet one (shoots faster, recloacks faster, you know for the big 6 man squads of soviet)
what counters does usa have? atleast volks are with 5 compared to 4 grens
you can either charge snipers with some squads or split up and use 3 squads on 3 locations vs his 2 snipers on 1 location, and often they use a 3d squad to protect their snipers
once more troops come on the field the snipers are a liability
what counters does usa have? atleast volks are with 5 compared to 4 grens
you can either charge snipers with some squads or split up and use 3 squads on 3 locations vs his 2 snipers on 1 location, and often they use a 3d squad to protect their snipers
once more troops come on the field the snipers are a liability
5 Aug 2014, 14:04 PM
#4
Posts: 1705
ost sniper is deadlier than soviet one (shoots faster, recloacks faster, you know for the big 6 man squads of soviet)
what counters does usa have? atleast volks are with 5 compared to 4 grens
you can either charge snipers with some squads or split up and use 3 squads on 3 locations vs his 2 snipers on 1 location, and often they use a 3d squad to protect their snipers
once more troops come on the field the snipers are a liability
Lets see,ost sniper FAR more fragile and can be eliminated by 5 man long range rifle fire if ur a tad uncareful..rifles can atleast force retreat quite easily.
As for counters jeep is very popular these days.And sniper is done once 7 min halftrack hits the field..or m20 before that.Unlike flak halftrack us halftrack can easy kill sniper.
5 Aug 2014, 14:20 PM
#5
Posts: 17891 | Subs: 8
Lets see,ost sniper FAR more fragile and can be eliminated by 5 man long range rifle fire if ur a tad uncareful..rifles can atleast force retreat quite easily.
How is that different from sov snipers being killed in a single LMG burst? Or just a-moved by panzerfusiliers that have exactly the same long range dps as rifles, yet got more men, which means sov sniper will never be able to wear them down, even in pair fast enough?
Also, you have JLI and fallshirmeagers to jump out of nearest building and just annihilate snipers, which is being done by people with half a clue.
As for counters jeep is very popular these days.And sniper is done once 7 min halftrack hits the field..or m20 before that.Unlike flak halftrack us halftrack can easy kill sniper.
Your argument about soviet sniper being untouchable is "there are mines and AT nades".
This applies to wehr as well, you can protect your sniper easily if you choose to, if you don't, then don't be surprised that it dies.
Its used rarely, but when it is its performance is great.
Survivability of both snipers is 100% dependent on positioning and infantry support. If you can't support yours properly, you'll keep loosing it.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
5 Aug 2014, 14:22 PM
#6
Posts: 1740
That's something I miss from the old CoH1.
There always was something you could do to counter a unit.
Snipers? -> Motorbike/Jeep.
In CoH2 it's pretty often "It MIGHT work but you have to sacrifice some troops and it is by far no hardcounter".
There always was something you could do to counter a unit.
Snipers? -> Motorbike/Jeep.
In CoH2 it's pretty often "It MIGHT work but you have to sacrifice some troops and it is by far no hardcounter".
It is though God by command has withdrawn every other throne.
And God is saying 'No. These people will deal with me alone.'
And God is saying 'No. These people will deal with me alone.'
5 Aug 2014, 14:50 PM
#7
Posts: 89
That's something I miss from the old CoH1.
There always was something you could do to counter a unit.
Snipers? -> Motorbike/Jeep.
In CoH2 it's pretty often "It MIGHT work but you have to sacrifice some troops and it is by far no hardcounter".
5 Aug 2014, 14:59 PM
#8
4 
Posts: 640 | Subs: 1
Or just a-moved by panzerfusiliers that have exactly the same long range dps as rifles, yet got more men, which means sov sniper will never be able to wear them down, even in pair fast enough?A doctrinal choice as a necessity to "counter" a stock unit.
Also, you have JLI and fallshirmeagers to jump out of nearest building and just annihilate snipers, which is being done by people with half a clue.A doctrinal choice and another doctrinal choice as a POSSIBLE way to counter a stock unit, heavily dependent on the map layout. Minsk pocket would like to have a word with you. No amount of clue will be able to spawn an ambient building behind the sniper when you need it.
Well, I suppose it's not that bad if all in all 3 of 6 commanders provide at least some way to deal with Snipers - but none of these can be called truly reliable. It's not that the Sniper is OP. It is just - how come it is the OKW that has to be a reactionary force and respond somehow to the menace of the Soviet sniper, while at the same time possibly having to sink manpower into defending against early M3s? Why aren't the Soviets the ones who have to scramble and look for effective tactics against some early game OKW game-changer unit (lol Sturmpios)?
One sniper is not a problem, and never was. It's having two of them, or even three - yes, three, that is an enormous amount of manpower. But it grants a guaranteed retreat of any Axis squad or weapon team every seven seconds, with the alpha strike potential on top of that.
5 Aug 2014, 15:32 PM
#9
Posts: 987
A doctrinal choice as a necessity to "counter" a stock unit.A doctrinal choice and another doctrinal choice as a POSSIBLE way to counter a stock unit, heavily dependent on the map layout. Minsk pocket would like to have a word with you. No amount of clue will be able to spawn an ambient building behind the sniper when you need it.
Well, I suppose it's not that bad if all in all 3 of 6 commanders provide at least some way to deal with Snipers - but none of these can be called truly reliable. It's not that the Sniper is OP. It is just - how come it is the OKW that has to be a reactionary force and respond somehow to the menace of the Soviet sniper, while at the same time possibly having to sink manpower into defending against early M3s? Why aren't the Soviets the ones who have to scramble and look for effective tactics against some early game OKW game-changer unit (lol Sturmpios)?
One sniper is not a problem, and never was. It's having two of them, or even three - yes, three, that is an enormous amount of manpower. But it grants a guaranteed retreat of any Axis squad or weapon team every seven seconds, with the alpha strike potential on top of that.
+1
OKW has doctrinal units to counter snipers BUT a player shouldn't have to select a doctrine just to counter a stock unit.
I think the best possibility is to give the Kubel a modifier vs snipers. Its range is short, so it would still require skill to get in close enough. This threat would create more work for the soviet player meaning new options would appear for the OKW player.
Let's keep it constructive
5 Aug 2014, 15:56 PM
#10
Posts: 1705
How is that different from sov snipers being killed in a single LMG burst? Or just a-moved by panzerfusiliers that have exactly the same long range dps as rifles, yet got more men, which means sov sniper will never be able to wear them down, even in pair fast enough?
Also, you have JLI and fallshirmeagers to jump out of nearest building and just annihilate snipers, which is being done by people with half a clue.
Your argument about soviet sniper being untouchable is "there are mines and AT nades".
This applies to wehr as well, you can protect your sniper easily if you choose to, if you don't, then don't be surprised that it dies.
Its used rarely, but when it is its performance is great.
Survivability of both snipers is 100% dependent on positioning and infantry support. If you can't support yours properly, you'll keep loosing it.
Read carefully,i have mentioned panzerfusiliers as only useful early game counter.
OKW lack lmgs on volks or pios.Obers come very late and very costly to reinforce.
Fallschirms or JLI only viable in maps with lots of buildings.
No,where did i give that argument?My argument is guards.Check back.
And its not abt wehr,just okw.
Stop twisting posts after not even reading them properly.
5 Aug 2014, 16:01 PM
#11
Posts: 752
How is that different from sov snipers being killed in a single LMG burst?
Why would a Sov Sniper ever decloak within range of a setup LMG?
Also, how does one burst kill both models?
How is that different, eh?`Its not different, its just stupid.
"You are competitive if play to win and make efforts to improve." -Basilone
5 Aug 2014, 16:22 PM
#12
Posts: 99
Why would a Sov Sniper ever decloak within range of a setup LMG?
Also, how does one burst kill both models?
How is that different, eh?`Its not different, its just stupid.
He meant the Ubersoldaten's LMG and he is right. Less than a second of a burst at their max range and they waste both sniper before you can blink. I know, i was pretty suprised when did it myself.
On topic: On the top of my head... Volks, Ubersoldaten (see above), that wierd mortar missile thingy, Kubel, Panzerfusilliers, Falls, JLI, flacktrack, ...
5 Aug 2014, 16:24 PM
#13
Posts: 1221 | Subs: 41
That's something I miss from the old CoH1.
There always was something you could do to counter a unit.
Snipers? -> Motorbike/Jeep.
Except any time past the first 5 minutes where the bike/jeep were effective it was more like "Snipers? --> Have more snipers than your opponent"
5 Aug 2014, 16:45 PM
#14
Posts: 158
I recently encountered alot of t1 play against me .
so make sure you check for the russian base soon enough (you can see base buildings in the fow).
T1 usually means fast m3 followed by snipers or instant snipers.
What i do is either take Breakthrough or scavange doc - if i see an ISU doc i like to go breakthrough for obvious reasons - but you can also deal with it quite well with puma/jagdpanzer.
Then i get t3 asap since you actually get a puma out faster than 2 cps .
In the early game you can outcap the russian t1 you should use that to your advantage , build 3 volks and use the pio to cap and stay away from the sniper or set up flanks if possible.
Stuka can be worth it instantly , but will be tricky to kill snipers vs experienced players.
I completely dislike Flak HT , set up time just gets it killed if you use it offensively.
so yeah - if you manage to not bleed too much in the early game ( volks reinforce doesnt hurt too much ) your lategame will be better , especially if you manage to keep your fuel investments alive.
A strat that also is quite good is going t2-t4 and get a fast luchs - that can come by 9-11 minutes depending on your fuelcontrol .
OKW is all about countering/reacting to the enemy teching choices
so make sure you check for the russian base soon enough (you can see base buildings in the fow).
T1 usually means fast m3 followed by snipers or instant snipers.
What i do is either take Breakthrough or scavange doc - if i see an ISU doc i like to go breakthrough for obvious reasons - but you can also deal with it quite well with puma/jagdpanzer.
Then i get t3 asap since you actually get a puma out faster than 2 cps .
In the early game you can outcap the russian t1 you should use that to your advantage , build 3 volks and use the pio to cap and stay away from the sniper or set up flanks if possible.
Stuka can be worth it instantly , but will be tricky to kill snipers vs experienced players.
I completely dislike Flak HT , set up time just gets it killed if you use it offensively.
so yeah - if you manage to not bleed too much in the early game ( volks reinforce doesnt hurt too much ) your lategame will be better , especially if you manage to keep your fuel investments alive.
A strat that also is quite good is going t2-t4 and get a fast luchs - that can come by 9-11 minutes depending on your fuelcontrol .
OKW is all about countering/reacting to the enemy teching choices
5 Aug 2014, 17:24 PM
#15
Posts: 950 | Subs: 1
hahah obersoldaten to counter snipers. thats like saying just build a p4 to counter m3s.
no one is asking how to counter them late game.
the fact is there really arent great non-doctrinal counters. thats why people are listing every single infantry squad that okw have. of course any infantry squad can kill a sniper. that doesnt mean they have a good chance, especially against a good player. if you dont have buildings for falls or JLI, you pretty much have to hope the soviet makes a mistake.
youd have to be asleep to lose your snipers to the okw AA ht. kubels also do very low damage on the move, so its unlikely that will work unless, again, they fall asleep in your arc.
without buildings, your best counter might actually be an infantry support gun. unfortunately thats very rng reliant and also expensive. wehrmacht had to do the same thing pre WFA. build a mortar and pray
no one is asking how to counter them late game.
the fact is there really arent great non-doctrinal counters. thats why people are listing every single infantry squad that okw have. of course any infantry squad can kill a sniper. that doesnt mean they have a good chance, especially against a good player. if you dont have buildings for falls or JLI, you pretty much have to hope the soviet makes a mistake.
youd have to be asleep to lose your snipers to the okw AA ht. kubels also do very low damage on the move, so its unlikely that will work unless, again, they fall asleep in your arc.
without buildings, your best counter might actually be an infantry support gun. unfortunately thats very rng reliant and also expensive. wehrmacht had to do the same thing pre WFA. build a mortar and pray
5 Aug 2014, 17:30 PM
#16
Posts: 1701
hahah obersoldaten to counter snipers. thats like saying just build a p4 to counter m3s.
no one is asking how to counter them late game.
the fact is there really arent great non-doctrinal counters. thats why people are listing every single infantry squad that okw have. of course any infantry squad can kill a sniper. that doesnt mean they have a good chance, especially against a good player. if you dont have buildings for falls or JLI, you pretty much have to hope the soviet makes a mistake.
youd have to be asleep to lose your snipers to the okw AA ht. kubels also do very low damage on the move, so its unlikely that will work unless, again, they fall asleep in your arc.
without buildings, your best counter might actually be an infantry support gun. unfortunately thats very rng reliant and also expensive. wehrmacht had to do the same thing pre WFA. build a mortar and pray
Finally someone says something like this, +1
Blaue Division - The best corp
BPX - Black Phoenix, Clan leader.
BPX - Black Phoenix, Clan leader.
5 Aug 2014, 17:35 PM
#17
Posts: 1225
Theories, theories.
The fact is that neither Fallis nor JLI at vet zero have the DPS to kill snipers reliably. If your opponent is careless it might work, of course, but it is highly situational. I've tried it quite a few times and more times then not it did not work. Part of the problem is that Soviet snipers rely on a critical mass of 2 units to work properly. Again, every player worth his salt will as a rule field two of them. It is therefore a very risky move and might just result in 390+ lost manpower. If he sees your move in time, he will just shoot your Fallis/JLI and force an instant retreat. If he has vet 1 he will sprint out of your effective range and then proceed to pop you. Meh. Edit: What Woof says +1. No hardcounters.
The fact is that neither Fallis nor JLI at vet zero have the DPS to kill snipers reliably. If your opponent is careless it might work, of course, but it is highly situational. I've tried it quite a few times and more times then not it did not work. Part of the problem is that Soviet snipers rely on a critical mass of 2 units to work properly. Again, every player worth his salt will as a rule field two of them. It is therefore a very risky move and might just result in 390+ lost manpower. If he sees your move in time, he will just shoot your Fallis/JLI and force an instant retreat. If he has vet 1 he will sprint out of your effective range and then proceed to pop you. Meh. Edit: What Woof says +1. No hardcounters.
5 Aug 2014, 17:59 PM
#18
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
Mines and Kubel bait ?
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
5 Aug 2014, 18:06 PM
#19
Posts: 1225
Hä? You want to bait snipers into mines using a Kübel or do I get you all wrong? (which is entirely possible)
5 Aug 2014, 18:07 PM
#20
Posts: 139
I support giving the kubel a role similar to the scout bike from COH1. Not that it fucking matters though.An M3 will kill a Kubel in 2 bursts so regardless of how good it is at chasing snipers its a moot point.
The problem is that IFG, while good at mysteriosly wiping squads, can almost never hit a sniper. Volks can get pretty expensive if you are just taking hits repeatedly to shield your Sturms.
So yea there is pretty much 0 counters for this cheese early game. In 2 V 2 its actually ridiculously good against either Ost or OKW to have an ally go 2-3 snipers and 2 M3's while the US rushes for zooks and half tracks.
The problem is that IFG, while good at mysteriosly wiping squads, can almost never hit a sniper. Volks can get pretty expensive if you are just taking hits repeatedly to shield your Sturms.
So yea there is pretty much 0 counters for this cheese early game. In 2 V 2 its actually ridiculously good against either Ost or OKW to have an ally go 2-3 snipers and 2 M3's while the US rushes for zooks and half tracks.
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