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russian armor

Ace tiger kill team games

1 Jan 2014, 23:56 PM
#1
avatar of Aradan

Posts: 991

Ace tiger kill team games. Mates help repair this monstrum and if this have another player, Soviets have minimum chance.
Next thing is vet buff. In team games simply wait in base and then attack with 3 star mortar and PzG. 2 star stug is enough for base AT + paks, or he wait for 2 star Panther with stronger front armour then Tiger. In 1v1 you can destroy Ace engine and outcap him. In team games you have problem press all germans to base. 70-80% OST players in quele for team games 3v3 and 4v4.

Soviets dont have bunkers, trench, strong AT gun as is 88 (pak 43), non doktrine tank equal Panthers and strong AT infantry. 1v1 is another ballance, but in team games is it problem.

link for example replay

Have you tips for linked game? How solved 3x Ace tiger in 10 minutes?
2 Jan 2014, 00:27 AM
#2
avatar of hubewa

Posts: 927

I think everyone here agrees the new commanders are broken in 1v1s (less than it was but still broken), let alone 2v2 -> 4v4s.

These commanders need a serious reworking.
2 Jan 2014, 00:39 AM
#3
avatar of JHeartless

Posts: 1637

TA isnt even fun to play against when you do actually win. By far the worst unit in the COH franchise.
2 Jan 2014, 00:42 AM
#4
avatar of 5thSSPzWiking

Posts: 135

it was a badly designed commander. i dont think there is a place for pre vetted units in coh2. players should have to work to get vet 3 units. i did buy this commander. i used it once, cant say that i like it too much. the fact that it stops resource flow is just a dumb trade off for a pre vetted tiger. even after it is dead there is no resources. just not a very good design. i fear that if there is a king tiger that comes out it will have this stupid trade off. but it is definately a pay to win if you have 3 on a team lol. i moslty play germans so i fear the soviet industry commander, but the elite commander is by far the closest leaning toward the pay to win model. i hope that is not what they are going for. i think we want cool units that are going to be a bit on the op side, but there needs to be better ways of implementing stronger units other than stopping resources. also having purchasable vet in the same commander is horribly op. from a sov player perspective i can see it being a not fun commander to play against. from a german point of view i wish that all the commanders were useful again. i had a teammate who just did circles with his starting pios cause we were playing a clan and his excuse was there was no point in trying cause we only had 1 person using the elite commander. having something like the elite commander is overall bad for this game.
2 Jan 2014, 00:58 AM
#5
avatar of OZtheWiZARD

Posts: 1439

They should change the unit so it has normal stats of Vet3 Tiger, make it a bit more expensive than the normal one as you have to pay for this extra levels of veterancy, change CP cost accordingly and remove recource stop completely. Problem solved. It would go well with the idea behind this commander.
2 Jan 2014, 02:32 AM
#6
avatar of Le Wish
Patrion 14

Posts: 813 | Subs: 1

They should change the unit so it has normal stats of Vet3 Tiger, make it a bit more expensive than the normal one as you have to pay for this extra levels of veterancy, change CP cost accordingly and remove recource stop completely. Problem solved. It would go well with the idea behind this commander.


This. In fact, I could live with the dps from the tank if it wasnt for all that HP. Also I fail to see how the ACE would get more HP on his tank because of skill? Range, reload, even damage on each shell (precise aiming) could reasonably be explained with skill. HP...? no, just no.

That said, I only faced it in teamgames and only lost to the tiger-ace once this far. The unit itself is an issue, but not the really big issue. The real gripe I have with this commander is purchased vet. dont think the ability itself will ever be removed, but it could be toned down. The times I have lost against the elite troops doctrine its been because of vet3 pgrens with g43s eating the infantry on the field, or carefully managed vetted tanks. The sad part is even if you manage to stall the game, the minute the ACE pops out, and they keep it alive you will lose ground. Most likely this is worst during 1v1s, but broken enough in 2v2 as well.
2 Jan 2014, 09:23 AM
#7
avatar of GustavGans

Posts: 747



This. In fact, I could live with the dps from the tank if it wasnt for all that HP. Also I fail to see how the ACE would get more HP on his tank because of skill? Range, reload, even damage on each shell (precise aiming) could reasonably be explained with skill. HP...? no, just no.


I absolutely agree with both of you. The concept of being able to send in some finalboss überunit just totally doesn't fit into a game like CoH


That said, I only faced it in teamgames and only lost to the tiger-ace once this far. The unit itself is an issue, but not the really big issue. The real gripe I have with this commander is purchased vet. dont think the ability itself will ever be removed, but it could be toned down. The times I have lost against the elite troops doctrine its been because of vet3 pgrens with g43s eating the infantry on the field, or carefully managed vetted tanks. The sad part is even if you manage to stall the game, the minute the ACE pops out, and they keep it alive you will lose ground. Most likely this is worst during 1v1s, but broken enough in 2v2 as well.


Yes purchased vet is awful. It too often pays for itself due to the advantage you get from vetting units early (mapcontrol wise).
2 Jan 2014, 10:27 AM
#8
avatar of MoerserKarL
Donator 22

Posts: 1108

how was the purchased vet system in vcoh? I Can't remember :/
2 Jan 2014, 10:44 AM
#9
avatar of OZtheWiZARD

Posts: 1439

One of the more controversial things. A lot of people, me included, hated it.
2 Jan 2014, 10:53 AM
#10
avatar of Madok

Posts: 101

how was the purchased vet system in vcoh? I Can't remember :/

Very controversial - still being discussed.
It's probably safe to say it's (now) balanced.

There are 4 German vet types
  • Infantry
  • Support (pios, support weapons)
  • Light vehicles (pumas, halftracks,...)
  • Tanks

The global vet upgrade is applied to all units on the field and was retained - meaning any unit produced after the global upgrade was bought would arrive with vet.
It is impossible to buy vet3 for all units unless you are trolling your helpless opponent - the fuel cost for vet 2 and 3 is just too high.

However these upgrades mostly added survivability to the German units - vet only gave a few units offensive bonuses.
American vet has to be earned (only model kills count) and the bonuses are generally superior - especially vet3.
That turns a normal riflemen unit into an impossibly powerful squad (+50% damage).
2 Jan 2014, 16:58 PM
#11
avatar of Greeb

Posts: 971

Elite Troops Commander made me stop playing the game, so I agree with everything said here.

The last two DLC commanders destroyed the game for me, and it seems that they won't be redesigned or changed anyway. I was tired of having to deal with a stupid Tiger Ace in every team game I played.
2 Jan 2014, 17:54 PM
#12
avatar of Jinseual

Posts: 598

i dont think paid vet is not that much of a problem, because it delays teching. however, i think the ability is too cheap and gives too much xp.

sure, for a panther you have to use the ability multiple times so its more like paying for a more expensive panther, but for infantry or support like grenadiers and mortars it's instant vet 3.

the ability is practically free manpower wise, this the cost of the ability should increase to 100 and 30 fuel, and not add so much veterancy.

Tiger Ace should be removed, a free tank is not something that deserves to be in this game, even if it is stoppable.

soviet industry also needs to change, tanks already come out too quickly right now, there shouldn't be a doctrine that makes them come out even faster.
2 Jan 2014, 18:28 PM
#13
avatar of Khan

Posts: 578

They should change the unit so it has normal stats of Vet3 Tiger, make it a bit more expensive than the normal one as you have to pay for this extra levels of veterancy, change CP cost accordingly and remove recource stop completely. Problem solved. It would go well with the idea behind this commander.


I could live with this. Great idea. Probably won't see it being implemented though.
2 Jan 2014, 18:41 PM
#14
avatar of GustavGans

Posts: 747

i dont think paid vet is not that much of a problem, because it delays teching. however, i think the ability is too cheap and gives too much xp.


I do not think so. Early vet troops can grant you map control therefore give you a higher ressource income which actually compensates for your initial vet investement.

As with other abilities, bought vet should not be available from the start. It should be a mechanic to replace lost vet units late game so that you can hold pace with your opponent.
2 Jan 2014, 19:10 PM
#15
avatar of Khan

Posts: 578



I do not think so. Early vet troops can grant you map control therefore give you a higher ressource income which actually compensates for your initial vet investement.

As with other abilities, bought vet should not be available from the start. It should be a mechanic to replace lost vet units late game so that you can hold pace with your opponent.


Yeah, VET3 PGs right off the bat becomes hard to deal with in the early game. It's the same with Grens. And don't forget, the doctrine has TA eventually, so you don't need to conserve your fuel that much.
2 Jan 2014, 19:26 PM
#16
avatar of oOIYvYIOo

Posts: 102

Its just a real represent of the real power and military advance that the German Army had on the war.
Now saying that is bug,cheat, thats noob talk mate.
2 Jan 2014, 19:57 PM
#17
avatar of 5thSSPzWiking

Posts: 135

i would rather see an example of german advance and power in a kingtiger. not a tiger with a bunch of hp added to it. just doesnt make sense. also we are talking about balance too. purchasable vet just doesnt reward players for unit preservation etc. im pretty much against commanders that allow noobs to win with superior abilities that are ridiculous.
3 Jan 2014, 01:35 AM
#18
avatar of JHeartless

Posts: 1637

Wow Wiking! Your starting to sound like a Soviet whinegirl! Is this growth i see? The new and improved wiking?

On topic. Yes a regular vet 3 tiger was all i expected when it was announced. It make it just the price of a regular tiger with reduced income dor a bit.

On the purchasable Vet i dont really have an issue with it in 1v1 it becomes like a game of watch what happens when i whioe your precious vet unit...and it does dwlay teching. And it is called elite troops after all. Maybe longer cool down? Id hate for it to become useless.
Hux
3 Jan 2014, 02:12 AM
#19
avatar of Hux
Patrion 14

Posts: 505

Even regular tigers are a fucking farce. Team games (above 2V2) usually end up with about 6 tigers tearing across the map , let alone the tiger ace.

Tigers should be increased in price to match their rightful potency (design wise) They were excellent in VCoH and good at killing almost everything - seeing one just meant so much more... I'd like to see that come back.

On Topic, The Tiger Ace is a fucking disgusting unit and whichever bean-counter came up with it should be made to play through the campaign...

The worst thing is, I dont even know how much it can be altered. I mean if I paid for a product (i.e that commander) then it gets nerfed and isn't fir for the purpose I bought it for then isn't that a breach of contract? (not that it matters to me, I wouldnt buy that thing if they paid me..)

3 Jan 2014, 03:15 AM
#20
avatar of Appleseed

Posts: 622

tiger ace is too broken, one 4v4 game my team was winning against german team and push to their door step. guess what they roll out 4 tiger aces at same time and those 4 monsters killed everything on the way between their base and our base. we cripple one, 3 other push forward and you see huge group of pios come up and repair that crippled tank. seriously no fun at all
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