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Royal engineer Recovery Squad

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26 Apr 2022, 10:14 AM
#41
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13477 | Subs: 1



Which mean you dont event use the combo that much, yet you talking like you have mastered it.

I dont watch much top player, but all of mine friend, who are experienced with the game, agree that UC drop troop is no more than a troll tactic that sometime can work out gain noobs.

Still, i see tightrope using mobile assault with RRo.e + UC buil but he doesnt seem so be using uc drop and refer to the built as off meta.

I never claimed anything remotely close to "mastering" anything, pls once more tone down the personal comments.


Tight role is playing 1sv1, transporting troops works much better in larger modes and maps where it enables to concentrate units faster.
26 Apr 2022, 11:02 AM
#42
avatar of Support Sapper

Posts: 1220 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Apr 2022, 10:14 AMVipper

I never claimed anything remotely close to "mastering" anything, pls once more tone down the personal comments.


Well, you didn't say it directly but the way you insist that the combo is troublesome and constantly suggest pp to try it leaving a very strong impression of:
A. You encounter it a lot.
B. You play with it and success a lot.
To the point that you know exactly what will happen. Still, neither above seem to be the case.

The reason why you doesnt have many experience with this tactic mentioned in #38 is also questionable, event if you donesnt like AVRE/LM, there are still a.section, which you describe as a strong combo, too, do you use them ?

Second question, why now? Like it been many month since RRo.e has been rework, if the UC drop is effective as you said, why aren't anyone complain about it already ? Again, The player base various at skill lever, but arent dumbs, if there are thing work and there are think not work, pp will find out in no time.


jump backJump back to quoted post26 Apr 2022, 10:14 AMVipper

Tight role is playing 1sv1, transporting troops works much better in larger modes and maps where it enables to concentrate units faster.


The lane map and troop concentration in big mode are the thing which make UC drop troop risky, you have to dive strait in since there are less flank routs and there are more thing shooting at you. There are many things can go wrong, for example: you arrive a bit late and the enemy have engought muni for faust, you encounter 2x mg42, your enemy's teammate show up, you encounter dual kubels, etc. No matter how you describe, committing 2 out of 3 of your fist unit in such a move will always be a gamble.

Edit: Add some example of how an UC drop can go wrong in 4v4.
26 Apr 2022, 11:33 AM
#43
avatar of donofsandiego

Posts: 1326

I don't really see what the issue is, Vipper. After all Royal Engineer recovery squad is more expensive than grenadiers. Why shouldn't they win?
26 Apr 2022, 11:34 AM
#44
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13477 | Subs: 1



Well, you didn't say it directly but the way you insist that the combo is troublesome and constantly suggest pp to try it leaving a very strong impression of:
A. You encounter it a lot.
B. You play with it and success a lot....

Imo you are demonstrating a "forum warrior" mentality and come with imaginary thing that I have not posted both of which I do not appreciate thus I would rather not continue down this road.

26 Apr 2022, 11:37 AM
#45
avatar of donofsandiego

Posts: 1326

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Apr 2022, 09:50 AMVipper

I have 2.594 games as UKF.


Well that explains it. That's nearly three whole games :nahnah:

/j
26 Apr 2022, 11:43 AM
#46
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3111 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Apr 2022, 20:41 PMVipper

This issue has more to do with timing and less with power.

The RoRe are OP for an engineer unit (especially with heavy sapper upgrade) but that is not the issue. It issue has to with timing and with initial contact.

Ostheer while more vulnerable to it has all the tools it needs to counter that combo. Early Fausts, a 5 minute 222. You could even build early PGrens within ~3 min to negate the Sappers.
You might be on the defensive for the first couple of minutes, the first two of which are mostly capping the map anyway. The combo works for maybe 3 assaults if everything works out well before counters arrive. There is nothing game breaking, it is fully okay to be expected to defend for a short time.

OKW has slightly more limited options, but on the other hand they are a more mobile army and less vulnerable to those pushes. They have SPs from the very start, Fausts at a decent timing, STGs soon after. You could even tech a PSchreck if necessary. The Sapper+UC combo also has a very limited window of opportunity.

As I said, there is not enough wiping power to actually wipe a squad and/or steal an MG. I cannot see how the impact of this combo is so huge that it needs to be looked at. It's a different, more aggressive start for UKF for sure, but not a game breaking one.
26 Apr 2022, 11:51 AM
#47
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3111 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Apr 2022, 10:14 AMVipper
...transporting troops works much better in larger modes and maps where it enables to concentrate units faster.

Definitely not.
Transporters like USF's Jeep, and the M3 have been an issue only 1v1. I mainly play 2v2 and 3v3 and even before the nerf of transported troops they were rarely used. Singling out units is the most important thing with this strategy, and this is way easier in 1v1.
Also the impact of the won engagement is much higher, since it will secure you probably two territory points, maybe even more. In larger modes, this won engagement might not even win you a single point.
26 Apr 2022, 12:10 PM
#48
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13477 | Subs: 1


Definitely not.
Transporters like USF's Jeep, and the M3 have been an issue only 1v1. I mainly play 2v2 and 3v3 and even before the nerf of transported troops they were rarely used. Singling out units is the most important thing with this strategy, and this is way easier in 1v1.
Also the impact of the won engagement is much higher, since it will secure you probably two territory points, maybe even more. In larger modes, this won engagement might not even win you a single point.

Not really the Jeep donated to UKF was completely broken in larger modes and was part of the reason why it lost its crew.

The m3a3 is used in 3vs3 and 4v4 and there are player who even spam them but it not really relevant to UC and SMG troops case.
A UKC player can have move his IS produce the UC and call in the RoRE(or ASIS) and concentrate those units.

Distance is a factor in this case because the transport allows RoRe do arrive earlier that they could if they where moving on foot and partially negates the effect of starting on CD.
26 Apr 2022, 12:16 PM
#49
avatar of Support Sapper

Posts: 1220 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Apr 2022, 11:34 AMVipper

Imo you are demonstrating a "forum warrior" mentality and come with imaginary thing that I have not posted both of which I do not appreciate thus I would rather not continue down this road.



yeah, bail out with the classic "personal comment" card, not any new.

So, do you have a lot of success with the tactics it or do you not ? How often do you meet someone using the tactics ? Who are the "better player" using the tactics was you talking about ? Who is the one imagining here ?

I often try to avoid talking loudly about topics hat i don't have experience with but i guess you are just difference.

You simply cant not claim a tactics as op, require neft and keep asking pp to try it out while dont event have enough experience with/againt it yourself while expecting everyone to not raise questions. It is ridiculous.

26 Apr 2022, 12:46 PM
#50
avatar of thekessvn

Posts: 109

Show us Replay about OP Re.RE + UC. Winrate for this combo, statatic plz :D :D :D :D :D :D
26 Apr 2022, 12:49 PM
#51
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13477 | Subs: 1



yeah, bail out with the classic "personal comment" card, not any new.

So, do you have a lot of success with the tactics it or do you not ? How often do you meet someone using the tactics ? Who are the "better player" using the tactics was you talking about ? Who is the one imagining here ?

I often try to avoid talking loudly about topics hat i don't have experience with but i guess you are just difference.

You simply cant not claim a tactics as op, require neft and keep asking pp to try it out while dont event have enough experience with/againt it yourself while expecting everyone to not raise questions. It is ridiculous.


Actually I met 3 people using this tactic in the last 2 games I played:
https://www.coh2.org/file/20183/rore.jpg

Can you now stop claiming that I am imagining things?
26 Apr 2022, 13:11 PM
#52
avatar of Support Sapper

Posts: 1220 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Apr 2022, 12:49 PMVipper

Actually I met 3 people using this tactic in the last 2 games I played:
https://www.coh2.org/file/20182/rore.jpg



So you meet 3 pp and UC drop troop suddenly an op tactic ? And the picture only showing that they are building UC and RRo.e, how about some picture or better video of the actual UC drop in that match ? Did you lost, or wint that match ?

Also, "3 people using this tactic in the last 2 games" isn't exactly the direct answer to the question of how often. I was expecting something like "i met them one in a couple of match" or "x out of y UKF i met using them" kind of answer but what ever.

And yes, i meet OKW kubel spam every day last week and i lost some match again them. Guest that is enough to claim st pio + kubel is op now.

Edit: How about some example of you successfully using the tactic ?
26 Apr 2022, 13:31 PM
#53
avatar of thekessvn

Posts: 109

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Apr 2022, 12:49 PMVipper

Actually I met 3 people using this tactic in the last 2 games I played:
https://www.coh2.org/file/20183/rore.jpg

Can you now stop claiming that I am imagining things?

LOL plz. for fuck sake.
by only 2 games and you can claim it OP ?.
26 Apr 2022, 13:38 PM
#54
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13477 | Subs: 1



So you meet 3 pp and UC drop troop suddenly an op tactic ?

Again you in forum warrior mode. I have not posted that the this tactic is OP because I encounter it often, I simply point out to you that I am not imagining thing as you claim.


And the picture only showing that they are building UC and RRo.e, how about some picture or better video of the actual UC drop in that match ? Did you lost, or wint that match ?

Also, "3 people using this tactic in the last 2 games" isn't exactly the direct answer to the question of how often. I was expecting something like "i met them one in a couple of match" or "x out of y UKF i met using them" kind of answer but what ever.

And yes, i meet OKW kubel spam every day last week and i lost some match again them. Guest that is enough to claim st pio + kubel is op now.

Edit: How about some example of you successfully using the tactic ?

How about some examples of you proving that UC infatry drop is a high risk move in the initial engagement?

If you are interested in statistic of game I suggest you collect your own instead of expecting me to keep a log in how many game people happened to use UKF and then happened to a specific tactic (only to then doubt the validity of the stat I would provide).

Think it pretty clear that you are no mode to have any kind of serious debate so will not follow down the path that derails this thread just because you want to pick up a fight.

It is already obvious that there are people do use this tactic and it is being used even on high ranks.
26 Apr 2022, 14:09 PM
#55
avatar of minhuh064

Posts: 63

I just tried twice, because the UC always drops RoE at the back so u cant reverse if u dont want UC pushing ur RoE around. RoE dmg is meh so can only force retreat MG/ Mortar at best, or they just stand still to bait RoE to get shot at by Gren or Volk. UC always has to run away asap because staying in combat for 10s it already loses half of its health.
26 Apr 2022, 14:10 PM
#56
avatar of Support Sapper

Posts: 1220 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Apr 2022, 13:38 PMVipper

Again you in forum warrior mode. I have not posted that the this tactic is OP because I encounter it often,


Then the whole claim of RRo.e + Uc op is base on what exactly ?
26 Apr 2022, 14:19 PM
#57
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3111 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Apr 2022, 12:10 PMVipper

Not really the Jeep donated to UKF was completely broken in larger modes and was part of the reason why it lost its crew.

Maybe someone else can chip in. I cannot recall seeing the Jeep being abused in 3v3. The reason why it lost its crew is also a different one.
My point still stands: The WC51 can transport units, it even comes with close range cav rifles. Outside of 1v1 streams and tourneys, I have not seen this being used/abused.
jump backJump back to quoted post26 Apr 2022, 12:10 PMVipper
The m3a3 is used in 3vs3 and 4v4 and there are player who even spam them but it not really relevant to UC and SMG troops case.
A UKC player can have move his IS produce the UC and call in the RoRE(or ASIS) and concentrate those units.

Distance is a factor in this case because the transport allows RoRe do arrive earlier that they could if they where moving on foot and partially negates the effect of starting on CD.

Maybe you have seen some players use it. I have been playing CoH2 as one of my major games for the last 4,5 years, and I have not seen any transport + CQC cheese at noticable level in 3v3 and 2v2 apart from >occasional< uses of the M3 back when Penals where the way to go for Soviets.
The UC+Sapper combo that you describe I have seen exactly once this patch. Judging by what other users write, I am not alone in this assessment. Apart from some people trying to have fun or just trying to cheese, this strategy is rarely being used, nor is it viable or problematic.


jump backJump back to quoted post26 Apr 2022, 12:10 PMVipper
A UKC player can have move his IS produce the UC and call in the RoRE(or ASIS) and concentrate those units.

Distance is a factor in this case because the transport allows RoRe do arrive earlier that they could if they where moving on foot and partially negates the effect of starting on CD.

So why should he not? Commanders allow for different openings, that's a good thing. Winning the first fight is important, but nothing game breaking or unrecoverable.
Transporting troops to arrive earlier on the front lines is, well, exactly what transporters are meant to do. There is nothing to prove that those 10-20 seconds you save on that specific combo are wildly problematic.
26 Apr 2022, 14:38 PM
#58
avatar of donofsandiego

Posts: 1326


Maybe someone else can chip in. I cannot recall seeing the Jeep being abused in 3v3. The reason why it lost its crew is also a different one.
My point still stands: The WC51 can transport units, it even comes with close range cav rifles. Outside of 1v1 streams and tourneys, I have not seen this being used/abused.


I still very vividly remember Chav drivebys. You'd decrew the WC51 so the UKF player with his CP0 ass tommies could tear enemy players a new asshole without ever having to leave the vehicle. Something USF can't do for another CP.

EDIT: I don't play 3v3 so idk but 4v4 this was a very popular (and incredibly f*cking effective) tactic. Many tasty MGs were stolen..
26 Apr 2022, 14:39 PM
#59
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13477 | Subs: 1


Maybe someone else can chip in. I cannot recall seeing the Jeep being abused in 3v3. The reason why it lost its crew is also a different one.
My point still stands: The WC51 can transport units, it even comes with close range cav rifles. Outside of 1v1 streams and tourneys, I have not seen this being used/abused.

The WC51 analogy is and cav rifles is simply not relevant. Actually the reason why Cav rifles are CP 1 and not CP 0 like ASIS is because the combo of minute 0 WC51 and Cav riflemen would be broken.


Maybe you have seen some players use it.

You can see it too by the link I provided so there is no "maybe" here ...

Once more I have not claimed that this tactic is very common so I have no idea why some people are fixating on how often it is being used.

I have been playing CoH2 as one of my major games for the last 4,5 years, and I have not seen any transport + CQC cheese at noticable level in 3v3 and 2v2 apart from >occasional< uses of the M3 back when Penals where the way to go for Soviets.
The UC+Sapper combo that you describe I have seen exactly once this patch. Judging by what other users write, I am not alone in this assessment. Apart from some people trying to have fun or just trying to cheese, this strategy is rarely being used, nor is it viable or problematic.

Have you see the UC ASIS combo? if you have why do you bring up irrelevant thing like M3A3 and WC51


So why should he not? Commanders allow for different openings, that's a good thing. Winning the first fight is important, but nothing game breaking or unrecoverable.
Transporting troops to arrive earlier on the front lines is, well, exactly what transporters are meant to do. There is nothing to prove that those 10-20 seconds you save on that specific combo are wildly problematic.

Point was that distance is a factor contrary to your claim. Do we agree that distance is factor?
26 Apr 2022, 14:55 PM
#60
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 786 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Apr 2022, 06:13 AMVipper

I did not describe them as "god mode shock troop" that is all you.

Yes a similar combo is available with A.S. and that part of the reason why lend lease is so popular.



if this is your only argument (pointing out my ridicule at you), then this thread should be closed
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