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russian armor

Conscript PTRS AT-grenade ability

2 Apr 2022, 13:48 PM
#1
avatar of general_gawain

Posts: 905

If you throw an AT-grenade or AT-satchel or shoot a panzerfaust the snare will hit the vehicle/tank always as long as it was in the range off the ability as you activated it. The projectile will surpass any obstacles and go as far as it has to. So a snare always hits once activated in range.

Only PTRS conscripts doing weird. I noticed that as I tested it ingame. Once you upgrade PTRS your cons will throw an AT-grenade per squad member alive instead of only one. Not all members at once, there is a delay. The weird thing: The whole animation thing has to be finished before the vehicle/tank leaves the range of the grenade. If the vehicle/tank leaves the range while the animation is ongoing the squad interrupts the throw and starts chasing the vehicle/tank to come into range again. But that will never happen of course.

This makes the ability pretty useless versus a half decent player which will keep his vehicles/tanks moving. The only strength of this commander should be the AT department since it comes without any good AI abilities or AI elite infantry. But somehow this fails. With AT-grenades not connecting, nondoctrinal penals with PTRS and AT-satchel seem to be the better choice, their PTRS are better vs infantry on top of it (accuracy).
2 Apr 2022, 17:23 PM
#2
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3386 | Subs: 1

The ability works that way because it does a lot of damage if all 6 At nades hit. And it does not make it useless at all, they have camo. Its meant to be used as an ambush ability

You also still have hoorah which also helps with seeing setting up the ability. But camo + hold fire is how you really use it, that way the tanks get close enough

Overall the commander isn't the strongest, but he can be very very potent in an arranged team ( i use him a lot in 3v3 AT)
2 Apr 2022, 18:48 PM
#3
avatar of general_gawain

Posts: 905

You also still have hoorah which also helps with seeing setting up the ability. But camo + hold fire is how you really use it, that way the tanks get close enough


Even with camo its hard to use the ability in time if the tank drives through. After all its mainly a snare, just with more damage. So you will need other AT sources either way. The main purpose for its use is the motor damage if you ask me. Camo and Hoorah helps to get into range but the tank will still just move backwards and the ability will be completely canceled. It only works vs bad/distracted players or tanks that fuck up their movement path while kiting. The first grenade should be thrown always at least. As another option the upgrade could give the multiple throw as an alternative ability and conserve the original AT grenade ability as a different one.
PTRS cons already suffer from beeing locked out from 7th man upgrade so they will stay to be more expensive to reinforce in the late game.

I can see it working in your AT team if other players help to pin down the tank for a moment (for example tulips) but that shouldn't be the situation the ability is balanced around.



2 Apr 2022, 20:55 PM
#4
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3386 | Subs: 1

You can also place light AT mines with cons/engies on that commander. They are cheap and can show the tank down for setting up the ambush. Its an expensive combo but can easily be worth it if you kill a tank

Ptrs cons also get vehicle detection making it even easier to time the ambush. The tools are all there to use it, but it definitely requires a lot of micro

Using it in an arranged team has more to do with how limited the commander is. He can leave you vulnerable against infantry if you don't have enough AI after you upgrade your cons. But if your teammates know what you're doing ahead of time it can be less of an issue
2 Apr 2022, 22:16 PM
#5
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13375 | Subs: 1

"Camouflage

Detectable at 10 range
Requires the squad to be stationary.
First Strike bonus: + 25% penetration
Conscripts gain access to the Hold Fire ability

RPG-40 Anti-Tank Grenade Assault
Replaces RPG-43 Anti-Tank Grenade when Conscript PTRS package is upgraded

- Aim-time from 2 to 1.375
- Wind-up from 0.25 to 0.125
- Range from 15 to 18
- Damage from 80 to 50
- Penetration from 100 to 150
- Causes engine damage at 75% health
- Can be avoided if out of range before the grenades are thrown; grenades will home onto targets when tossed"

The ability is better used from ambush position and it can have devastating effects. In lenie forest I destroyed a PzIV in the forest before it had any time to react.

6 grenades will do 240 guaranteed damage up to 300 and one can finish with PTRS from single squad.

When PTRS Penal where introduced the unit has lost its role though since the overlap it simply too much.
2 Apr 2022, 22:50 PM
#6
avatar of BasedSecretary

Posts: 1190

You are right. The reason this happens is because you have 6/6 guaranteed snares which can devastate everything. Hoorah should help with this.
2 Apr 2022, 22:52 PM
#7
avatar of BasedSecretary

Posts: 1190


Overall the commander isn't the strongest, but he can be very very potent in an arranged team ( i use him a lot in 3v3 AT)


I know, but I always equip it when playing SOV. PTRS cons are OP AS FUCK if you are against OKW vehicle spammer and also you need some last ditch AT efforts. Also, B4 wrecks OKW's emplacements and AntiTank Bomb run is awesome against anything static (including, ofcourse, OKW buildings).

Maybe not S tier (compared to say Guard Motor, Shock) but 100% A tier.
3 Apr 2022, 03:22 AM
#8
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3386 | Subs: 1

AntiTank Bomb run is awesome against anything static (including, ofcourse, OKW buildings).

Yeah it honestly might be better at destroying OKW buildings than it is at destroying tanks. With the exception of heavy tanks/TDs, very good against those especially if stunned/engine damaged

Mediums usually dodge or only take a few hits but it does stun if it hits so still can be useful
3 Apr 2022, 11:29 AM
#9
avatar of general_gawain

Posts: 905

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Apr 2022, 22:16 PMVipper

When PTRS Penal where introduced the unit has lost its role though since the overlap it simply too much.


Yeah, with the 3 PTRS penals the PTRS cons are obsolete now. Ambush is too situational and defensive to be a selling point for them if you ask me.

Penal PTRS Accuracy:
0.3/0.21/0.16

Conscript PTRS Accuracy:
0.15/0.105/0.06 to

To the last man and the higher accuracy boni of penal vet come on top and result in Penal PTRS beeing able to hit infantry while cons don't hit the barn at all. This plus the three remaining penals without PTRS having better AI than remaining cons means that PTRS penal squad has way better AI than PTRS con squad. I do think PTRS cons could be worth it if the 7th man upgrade wouldn't be locked out.


jump backJump back to quoted post2 Apr 2022, 22:16 PMVipper
6 grenades will do 240 guaranteed damage up to 300 and one can finish with PTRS from single squad.

And if you want a 300+ damage snare with something like Hoorah that doesn't cancel in the mid of the throw, take a doctrine with KV-8, bring it to Vet1 and use "Inspire Infantry" on your PTRS penals. Or use mortar smoke to bring your PTRS penals in with FMA of Counterattack Tactics. I do think this has more uses than setting up an ambush and hoping for a tank driving by.



Yeah it honestly might be better at destroying OKW buildings than it is at destroying tanks. With the exception of heavy tanks/TDs, very good against those especially if stunned/engine damaged


It excels at destroying occupied ambient buildings. It should be called AntiBuilding Bomb.
3 Apr 2022, 15:32 PM
#10
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3386 | Subs: 1


And if you want a 300+ damage snare with something like Hoorah that doesn't cancel in the mid of the throw, take a doctrine with KV-8, bring it to Vet1 and use "Inspire Infantry" on your PTRS penals. Or use mortar smoke to bring your PTRS penals in with FMA of Counterattack Tactics. I do think this has more uses than setting up an ambush and hoping for a tank driving by.

If you're talking about for mother Russia, that only gives them sprint out of combat

Like I said ptrs cons have vehicle detection, so you don't even have to just wait forever. You can move them to cover and camo when you see the tank coming on the map

Ptrs cons are a stronger AT squad than ptrs penals. That's not debatable. Its whether or not it's worth going the commander in the first place. I would never use him in 1v1


It excels at destroying occupied ambient buildings. It should be called AntiBuilding Bomb.

And heavy TDs/the KT. Very very good against those
3 Apr 2022, 15:36 PM
#11
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13375 | Subs: 1


If you're talking about for mother Russia, that only gives them sprint out of combat

Like I said ptrs cons have vehicle detection, so you don't even have to just wait forever. You can move them to cover and camo when you see the tank coming on the map

Ptrs cons are a stronger AT squad than ptrs penals. That's not debatable. Its whether or not it's worth going the commander in the first place. I would never use him in 1v1


And heavy TDs/the KT. Very very good against those

He is talking about :

Name: "Inspire Infantry"
Duration: 15 Seconds
Cost: 25 Munitions
-20% weapon cooldown
Affected squads will move faster.
Range of aura - 30.

available to KV-2/KV-8, an ability which is a great buff to PTRS.
3 Apr 2022, 20:10 PM
#12
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3386 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Apr 2022, 15:36 PMVipper

He is talking about :

Name: "Inspire Infantry"
Duration: 15 Seconds
Cost: 25 Munitions
-20% weapon cooldown
Affected squads will move faster.
Range of aura - 30.

available to KV-2/KV-8, an ability which is a great buff to PTRS.

I was referencing this part:


Or use mortar smoke to bring your PTRS penals in with FMA of Counterattack Tactics. I do think this has more uses than setting up an ambush and hoping for a tank driving by.

I think "FMA of counterattack" is referring to for mother Russia. Which is a solid ability but using mortar smoke + fmr to get AT penals close seems like just as much work as ambushing with ptrs cons
3 Apr 2022, 20:19 PM
#13
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13375 | Subs: 1


I was referencing this part:


I think "FMA of counterattack" is referring to for mother Russia. Which is a solid ability but using mortar smoke + fmr to get AT penals close seems like just as much work as ambushing with ptrs cons

Yea it probably meant FMR, the combination of smoke can allow Penals not to get fire upon until they can close in on their target.

Imo ambush camo works better in CQC maps, in many cases it seemed to me that ourah and AT assault do not work very well together.

There is an overlap between PTRS Penals and PTRS conscripts, but the commander is good at destroying OKW trucks.
4 Apr 2022, 13:09 PM
#14
avatar of donofsandiego

Posts: 858

Ptrs cons are a stronger AT squad than ptrs penals. That's not debatable.


I do think it's debatable. Maybe when cons had 3 ptrs while penals only 2 this wasn't debatable.

Is it a squad with useful and more versatile abilities? Certainly. But the better vet and vehicle-locking satchel snare put the penals on par for AT "strength" in my opinion.
4 Apr 2022, 15:31 PM
#15
avatar of BasedSecretary

Posts: 1190



I do think it's debatable. Maybe when cons had 3 ptrs while penals only 2 this wasn't debatable.

Is it a squad with useful and more versatile abilities? Certainly. But the better vet and vehicle-locking satchel snare put the penals on par for AT "strength" in my opinion.


True, but cons are dirt cheap and expendable squad. I would much rather have a 240mp squad which I don't really care about throwing in front of tanks and hmgs rather than semi elit Penals that drop like flies. True the mini nuke can work wonders if you can time it properly.
4 Apr 2022, 17:50 PM
#16
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3386 | Subs: 1


I do think it's debatable. Maybe when cons had 3 ptrs while penals only 2 this wasn't debatable.

Is it a squad with useful and more versatile abilities? Certainly. But the better vet and vehicle-locking satchel snare put the penals on par for AT "strength" in my opinion.

If you use their camo to ambush the "vehicle locking" isn't that much of an issue. Can also use hoorah from ambush to get you in closer. Plus it still has more range than the satchel which offsets that difference a little bit

Better vet isn't very clear cut either. Cons have better survivability with vet, and they have camo to begin with so you should already be taking less fire

I also wouldn't say the abilities are versatile. They're good for 1 thing, killing tanks. Camo helps ambush tanks, vehicle detection tells you exactly when and where to ambush.

AT penals have the massive advantage of being stock. Can't argue against that. But squad to squad the AT cons have quite an edge imo
4 Apr 2022, 19:08 PM
#17
avatar of general_gawain

Posts: 905

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Apr 2022, 20:19 PMVipper

Yea it probably meant FMR, the combination of smoke can allow Penals not to get fire upon until they can close in on their target.


Yeah, I mistyped. You guessed right.


True, but cons are dirt cheap and expendable squad. I would much rather have a 240mp squad which I don't really care about throwing in front of tanks and hmgs rather than semi elit Penals that drop like flies. True the mini nuke can work wonders if you can time it properly.


The cons are the ones that drop like flies. On vet0 they habe target size 1,1 and on vet1 to vet2 they have still target size 1 while penal target size (received acc) lowers with every dropped man at least. Only at vet3 they are somehow about even overall. And I wouldn't call cons dirt cheap. Without seven man upgrade (reinforce reduction) they will drain your MP quite a bit if you throw them in front of tanks. And on top of it PTRS penals can do something vs infantry while PTRS cons can't.

If the throw couldn't be cancelled in the midth of its execution I would say PTRS cons are better as an AT unit at least. But I do think Inspire Infantry + PTRS penals + homing AT satchel is better and has way better AI options on top. If you look at the other abilities of the commander its funny that the best soviet AT offmaps are at other commanders (Rocket run and AT-Overwatch). This commander should have got heavy vehicle mines in its rework at least, but it is too late for that now.
4 Apr 2022, 20:39 PM
#18
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3386 | Subs: 1


And on top of it PTRS penals can do something vs infantry while PTRS cons can't.

But they'll still get beaten pretty well by most infantry anyway. The worst part about the AT upgrade for penals is what you're giving up in the first place

Cons aren't anything special against infantry until 7 man. But giving them ptrs upgrade makes them great against light vehicles/mediums as soon as you upgrade

Penals are amazing vs infantry. Giving them the upgrade takes away a strong AI squad


If the throw couldn't be cancelled in the midth of its execution I would say PTRS cons are better as an AT unit at least.

Then they would insanely broken. With hoorah that would make the ability absurdly easy to use
4 Apr 2022, 22:05 PM
#19
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13375 | Subs: 1



Yeah, I mistyped. You guessed right.
...

Can't take credit for that it was Skysthelimit who first guess it right :).


...

I agree that PTRS conscripts are not very attractive but they are rather cost efficient compared to other AT infatry, many of which have higher initial cost and bleed harder.

I also agree about the bomb run which is more effective vs other target types.
5 Apr 2022, 01:27 AM
#20
avatar of Willy Pete

Posts: 242

Ptrs cons are amazing, i use em all the time in 2v2. If u changed the AT nade ability they would prob be too strong

My opening build order for that cmdr:
Conscript, t1, penal, penal, penal, conscript, (upgrade 1st con to ptrs) muni cache

U upgrade the 2nd con to ptrs around the time medium tank hit the field. Use the penals for ur infantry fighting force
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