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russian armor

3v3 axis. we were perfect but still lost.

8 Jan 2022, 16:52 PM
#1
avatar of Çükübik

Posts: 14

https://www.coh2.org/replay/109895/3v3-axis-lost-last-second-lost

we were playing as a team 3v3 . i played almost perfect till last second and we lost somehow. please explain why we lost . any feedbacks would be nice
11 Jan 2022, 09:27 AM
#2
avatar of Çükübik

Posts: 14

Need some serious feedback. We had a fight with my friends because of this game. We couldnt decide why we lost and who did more mistakes. They dont answer my calls now
13 Jan 2022, 02:52 AM
#3
avatar of Lady Xenarra

Posts: 797

Regretfully I had a much longer post readied with section-by-section analysis (1500+ words) but the website timed me out, losing the post. I'll just get to the point before I lose my temper.

https://www.coh2.org/replay/109895/3v3-axis-lost-last-second-lost

we were playing as a team 3v3 . i played almost perfect till last second and we lost somehow. please explain why we lost . any feedbacks would be nice


First off, nobody plays perfect. I'm going to focus on what went wrong rather than what went right. Some observations.

You don't need a rak at 3:30 when the SOV has shown to be using a cons heavy build (and very very likely T2). There's no clown car. The AT gun does nothing for a very long time and lets you get outmanned.

Centre is locked down well, but there's nothing done to punish USF for abandoning the centre (and going to the forest). The RE squad is a speedbump. The mortar(s) don't do much and instead could do a lot of damage supporting the town fighting.


This building cannot be fired out of the big doors and thus the MG is doing basically nothing. Send it to another building or set it up where it has a proper field of fire.


Kill Beacons, they give info in the minimap on units nearby.

Allies were behind for most of the midgame but the VP pressure was not really applied.

Ostwind did a lot of damage, but then was lost in an aggressive push to a KV-8 and Jackson. You (speaking about the team, not anyone in particular) should have been aware that the Allies were saving fuel as there had been no vehicles so far. The TD coming was obvious. StuG killed as well iirc, heavy loss. Lucky they weren't punished hard by USF for weapons team spam. Very nearly was by an inf push.

Took quite a risk to have no AT guns in middle, but it paid off...this time.

Questionable shootout with pzgrenschreks + StuG vs AT gun + crippled KV-8. Didn't payoff and pzgrens were wiped by Katyusha. StuG killed by Jackson coming to help. Shouldn't have tried it imho.

Panther on left doing a long range shootout with a ZiS and predictably loses. Saw it happen later at least one other time.


KT arriving could have tilted the tables but it didn't really do much. There was a sizable window where the Allies only had this above comp defending mid. Aside from the Jackson, the rest could be steamrollered rather easily. The Scott was left unpunished and barraged bunkers to destruction. The first reinforcement bunker was in an exposed position and easy to spot, thus easier to barrage. 10+ mins sitting around and giving time for the Allies to get more TDs.

JT is sent into the town area outskirts where it can't use more than half its range usually. It's asking to die there and unsurprisingly dies quickly. Much better off in mid where it can do some serious damage to the Allied TDs. Without the TDs and no real answer in this game to a properly-supported-and-micro'd JT, the Allies are finished.

5-squad blob was inevitably punished by Katyusha. Don't blob this much.

Don't be afraid to harass the right VP with a lone inf squad. This will force them to send at least 2x as much inf to kick you off it. The two maxims are in predictable locations and easily flanked. Watch out for mines.

Still no repair upgrade on one of the mech HQ despite sitting on a massive fuel float. All three of you needed the repairs. The KT could not be used as much as it was damaged. Also ate a whole arty barrage for some reason. There's no reason for you to have such a massive fuel + manpower float (1000+MP & 300+ FU at one point whilst not even 60/100 pop.). The forest could have been taken easily with one Panther + supporting inf. The two muni caches could then be destroyed.

USF doing the BS Path+Scotts combo but he’s not that good at it. Definitely beatable by what you have.

2 caches (good) but still got a safeish 3rd spot for another cache on the left.

Later on both Panthers on left engaged in a shoot out with TDs in the FoW. There's a 50%(?) accuracy penalty for this and they have full sight on you. Both Panthers are killed for nothing. Could have been averted by using a nearby volks to screen ahead and threaten faust on a damaged TD. Then you have sight but they get shot by tank in their FoW.

Rocket arty comes far far far too late (30 mins?) and USF is not punished for blobbing paras + paths.

Don't underestimate a vet III Jackson, it's extremely dangerous.

I have to stress again - Rocket arty comes too late in a campy match like Lienne. Yes there were 2 pzwerfers by 33:00 but that's produced right at the end of what I saw.

Final thoughts
Some good or even great fights for Axis, but plenty of mistakes to go around for all parties involved. I had stopped around 33:00 as I could see where the game was going. Allied TDs gradually zoning you out of the map + vehicle kills. Katy rocket arty casualties mounting, centre VP being stolen many times uncontested. VP ticker going down gradually and the match is lost on the VP count. Feel free to let me know how accurate my predictions were.
13 Jan 2022, 08:06 AM
#4
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4071 | Subs: 3

Need some serious feedback. We had a fight with my friends because of this game. We couldnt decide why we lost and who did more mistakes. They dont answer my calls now


I'm sure xenarra gave good feedback (I haven't read it) but I wanted to touch on this post.

It's difficult for me to word this correctly but my point is this: never let a game cause so much stress between friends that it makes the game unenjoyable. Games are not worth losing friends over. If you're blaming someone else for doing something you don't agree with or for whatever reason, you're actively harming your friendship with that person. There's a difference between giving positive suggestions and reinforcement and condescending feedback. If the other person is responding poorly to even positive suggestions then it's up to you to either tell them about the issue or ask yourself if you want to continue playing with them or both.

I know absolutely nothing about your situation, but people tend to respond well to positivity, and the opposite as well. I hope you all are able to patch things up. :)
13 Jan 2022, 08:19 AM
#5
avatar of Alegoz

Posts: 1

Regretfully I had a much longer post readied with section-by-section analysis (1500+ words) but the website timed me out, losing the post. I'll just get to the point before I lose my temper.


really, i would like to see your analysis.


They dont answer my calls now


I still do not answer his calls. :)
13 Jan 2022, 15:50 PM
#6
avatar of Çükübik

Posts: 14

Regretfully I had a much longer post readied with section-by-section analysis (1500+ words) but the website timed me out, losing the post. I'll just get to the point before I lose my temper.



First off, nobody plays perfect. I'm going to focus on what went wrong rather than what went right. Some observations.

You don't need a rak at 3:30 when the SOV has shown to be using a cons heavy build (and very very likely T2). There's no clown car. The AT gun does nothing for a very long time and lets you get outmanned.

Centre is locked down well, but there's nothing done to punish USF for abandoning the centre (and going to the forest). The RE squad is a speedbump. The mortar(s) don't do much and instead could do a lot of damage supporting the town fighting.


This building cannot be fired out of the big doors and thus the MG is doing basically nothing. Send it to another building or set it up where it has a proper field of fire.


Kill Beacons, they give info in the minimap on units nearby.

Allies were behind for most of the midgame but the VP pressure was not really applied.

Ostwind did a lot of damage, but then was lost in an aggressive push to a KV-8 and Jackson. You (speaking about the team, not anyone in particular) should have been aware that the Allies were saving fuel as there had been no vehicles so far. The TD coming was obvious. StuG killed as well iirc, heavy loss. Lucky they weren't punished hard by USF for weapons team spam. Very nearly was by an inf push.

Took quite a risk to have no AT guns in middle, but it paid off...this time.

Questionable shootout with pzgrenschreks + StuG vs AT gun + crippled KV-8. Didn't payoff and pzgrens were wiped by Katyusha. StuG killed by Jackson coming to help. Shouldn't have tried it imho.

Panther on left doing a long range shootout with a ZiS and predictably loses. Saw it happen later at least one other time.


KT arriving could have tilted the tables but it didn't really do much. There was a sizable window where the Allies only had this above comp defending mid. Aside from the Jackson, the rest could be steamrollered rather easily. The Scott was left unpunished and barraged bunkers to destruction. The first reinforcement bunker was in an exposed position and easy to spot, thus easier to barrage. 10+ mins sitting around and giving time for the Allies to get more TDs.

JT is sent into the town area outskirts where it can't use more than half its range usually. It's asking to die there and unsurprisingly dies quickly. Much better off in mid where it can do some serious damage to the Allied TDs. Without the TDs and no real answer in this game to a properly-supported-and-micro'd JT, the Allies are finished.

5-squad blob was inevitably punished by Katyusha. Don't blob this much.

Don't be afraid to harass the right VP with a lone inf squad. This will force them to send at least 2x as much inf to kick you off it. The two maxims are in predictable locations and easily flanked. Watch out for mines.

Still no repair upgrade on one of the mech HQ despite sitting on a massive fuel float. All three of you needed the repairs. The KT could not be used as much as it was damaged. Also ate a whole arty barrage for some reason. There's no reason for you to have such a massive fuel + manpower float (1000+MP & 300+ FU at one point whilst not even 60/100 pop.). The forest could have been taken easily with one Panther + supporting inf. The two muni caches could then be destroyed.

USF doing the BS Path+Scotts combo but he’s not that good at it. Definitely beatable by what you have.

2 caches (good) but still got a safeish 3rd spot for another cache on the left.

Later on both Panthers on left engaged in a shoot out with TDs in the FoW. There's a 50%(?) accuracy penalty for this and they have full sight on you. Both Panthers are killed for nothing. Could have been averted by using a nearby volks to screen ahead and threaten faust on a damaged TD. Then you have sight but they get shot by tank in their FoW.

Rocket arty comes far far far too late (30 mins?) and USF is not punished for blobbing paras + paths.

Don't underestimate a vet III Jackson, it's extremely dangerous.

I have to stress again - Rocket arty comes too late in a campy match like Lienne. Yes there were 2 pzwerfers by 33:00 but that's produced right at the end of what I saw.

Final thoughts
Some good or even great fights for Axis, but plenty of mistakes to go around for all parties involved. I had stopped around 33:00 as I could see where the game was going. Allied TDs gradually zoning you out of the map + vehicle kills. Katy rocket arty casualties mounting, centre VP being stolen many times uncontested. VP ticker going down gradually and the match is lost on the VP count. Feel free to let me know how accurate my predictions were.
13 Jan 2022, 15:57 PM
#7
avatar of Çükübik

Posts: 14

Thank you so much for your comment. i tried to retake forest vp many times and half of them was succesfull. What do you think about our commander choices? i prefer falls over obers on this map, thats why i got only one volks. wanted to get falls and strums for close combat. i couldnt make my falls over 2 stars anyway. Should i pick fusiliers for maps like this? As frontline infantry
13 Jan 2022, 16:30 PM
#8
avatar of Lady Xenarra

Posts: 797

Thank you so much for your comment. i tried to retake forest vp many times and half of them was succesfull. What do you think about our commander choices? i prefer falls over obers on this map, thats why i got only one volks. wanted to get falls and strums for close combat. i couldnt make my falls over 2 stars anyway. Should i pick fusiliers for maps like this? As frontline infantry


You're welcome.

Commander choices were fine for this map but the order it was used was wrong. Falls is fine for forest where there's lots of close-mid range fighting and likely close range Allied specialists. JT is great for middle but it was used in heavy urban, which is terrible. Tiger Ace is great in town but the doc got used in the middle where the TA would be target practice for TDs.

More than one SP is usually a mistake, if I haven't said it already. You bleed huge MP even in good situations. If you really really want to use double SPs then maybe dual Feuersturm flamethrowers can be extremely deadly in forest + MP40 volks. Fusiliers on the right can work, but your weak early game will punish you harder vs many Allied openers.

An important tip - Falls with holdfire can be very deadly, even if the models are 'visible'. The enemy player receives zero notification iirc (aside from minimap, which is too late usually) that they have inf nearby unless they're damaged by them. Can use it to knock out MG teams and steal the gun or more unpleasant stuff. See case in point:


jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jan 2022, 08:19 AMAlegoz

really, i would like to see your analysis.

Like I said, it was lost due to the timeout so I did a quick version instead. Basically just had more specifics of what went wrong.
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