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Unit & Ability Feedback

16 Jul 2021, 19:08 PM
#1
avatar of yunusozgul

Posts: 15

Greetings,
I'll keep this part as short as possible so as to get straight into the point quickly. I've recently noticed that there are some interesting issues that started to occur right after the Commander Patch was released. I also thought that it would be nice to state my personal opinion about several units in order to make them more useful and maintain the game balance.


Assault Engineers
-The keys to build a Munitions Cache and plant an M5 Mine overlap. Therefore, we're not able to use the shortcut key 'M' efficiently.
-This unit should be able to build a tank trap just like Sturmpioneers and Rear Echelon Troops.

Infantry Section
-When you choose the Advanced Emplacement Regiment commander in-game, you'll notice that you won't be able to build a Munitions Cache since the keys to build a Munitions Cache and plant an M5 Mine overlap which results in not being able to use the shortcut key 'M' effectively

Royal Engineers
-These units should have the opportunity to build a tank trap if the player intends to pick the Advanced Emplacement Regiment commander. Since this commander is meant to be a defensive one, it would be sensible to give such an ability to the Royal Engineers unit so as to reflect the protective side of the commander.

Assault Infantry Section
-The Assault Section Upgrade that grants 2 Thompsons SMGs, grants access to No. 77 WP Grenade and increases survivability shouldn't be picked before the construction of the Platoon Command Post building in order to keep the early game balance as these units also get the access to smoke grenade which can be used to bypass hostile heavy machine guns that are supposed to stop massive numbers of short range units before they reach themselves by pinning them eventually.
-The keys to the Assault Section Upgrade and throw a smoke grenade overlaps which causes not to use the shortcuy key 'V' properly.

Raid Section
-These units must be able to access to the No. 36M Mills Bomb because having the opportunity to throw a grenade is ultimately more useful than the Molotov Cocktail ability. Even the Assault Section unit has the access to No. 36M Mills Bomb, No. 77 WP Grenade and Smoke Grenade.
-The Vickers K upgrade should be replaced with "Scoped Lee-Enfield Upgrade" which grants 2x scoped rifles that gives advantage on long range so as to make the British version of Pathfinders.

Mobile Observation Posts (SdKfz 251 Half-track)
-All factions except OST have the opportunity to set a retreat position that gives the opportunity to save time and keep the stability of the frontline while fighting on the battlefield. It would be nice to convert this vehicle into a fallback point so as to maintain the balance among the factions.

Infiltration Commandos
-These units should arrive on the battlefield as a 4-person squad just like Stormtroopers and Fallschirmjägers. As you may know, the Airborne Guards unit of the USSR arrives as a 6-person squad and has the opportunity to get 6x PPSh-41 for free. However, you need to reinforce your expensive Infiltration Commandos if you want to possess a full infiltration squad which isn't fair at all.

M10 Achilles
-It should be made it so that M10 Achilles can take advantage from the British vehicle skins as it arrives on the battlefield with its own default skin. Even the Soviet M4C Sherman can benefit from the Soviet vehicle skins. Therefore, it's totally pointless to keep M10 Achilles away from the faction skins.

M5 Half-track (British version)
-Like I said above, it should be made it so that M5 Half-track can take advantage of the British vehicle skins as it arrives on the battlefield with its own default skin. As you may have realized, the USSR has the opportunity to apply its own skins to this vehicle even though the fact that it's a lend-lease vehicle.

Command Tiger
-This vehicle must either draw advantage from the OKW vehicle skins or must have an own skin just like the Command Panther tank.
-It should have a passive aura ability like the one in the Command Panther tank.
-It should get benefit from the Panzer Commander ability.

Partisan Troops
-After the latest patch, the Partisan Tactics commander has totally become a useless one because the Partisan Troops unit no longer arrives on the battlefield as a short-range unit that can suprise the opponent and sabotage the frontline. However, I've never seen a player that picks this commander since the day this patch was released as the Partisan Troops used to rely on the element of surprise. That change must be reverted so as to encourage the usage of this commander in-game.

Airborne Guards Troops
-These elite units should parachute so as to arrive on the battlefield. They're known as Soviet paratroopers, yet they still arrive as an infiltration unit like Stormtroopers and Partisans. The decision to make them look like an airborne unit who previously infiltrated the target area has never been reasonable since the day the Airborne Troops Tactics commander was announced.
-Either the upgrade that grants 3x DP-28 light-machine guns must have a slight improvement by augmenting its overall firepower or the 3th experience level must grant 40% accuracy bonus instead of only 30% to promote the usage of these light-machine guns.

Fallschirmjägers
-After the patch that increased the cost of constructing Schwerer Panzer Headquarters to 90 Fuel from 60 Fuel was released, these special units became less effective than before. The reason for this situation is that it now takes more time to grant their additional 2x FG-42s since that upgrade requires Schwerer Panzer Headquarters to exist. In order to solve this problem, either the Mechanized Group Support upgrade in the Battlegroup Headquarters building or the Mechanized Regiment Headquarters building should unlock the upgrade.

Pioneers
-The keys to grant flamethrower and throw a satchel are same as each other:
17 Jul 2021, 15:31 PM
#2
avatar of rumartinez89

Posts: 289

I will respond to scorched earth policy since I have been using it lately.

You are thinking and using it wrong. You should be setting it up on important enemy flags not your own. The damage is a nice bonus but the meat of the ability is a minute or more of being unable to recap. So if you get the enemy gas or cutoff they are screwed for a bit. Do they keep the unit around until they are able to cap or commit to somewhere else. Also, it only stops resource generation when triggered.

The ability is cheap and annoying as hell, booby trap is nice but its good to see different things so the game doesn't get stale.
17 Jul 2021, 18:25 PM
#3
avatar of yunusozgul

Posts: 15

I will respond to scorched earth policy since I have been using it lately.

You are thinking and using it wrong. You should be setting it up on important enemy flags not your own. The damage is a nice bonus but the meat of the ability is a minute or more of being unable to recap. So if you get the enemy gas or cutoff they are screwed for a bit. Do they keep the unit around until they are able to cap or commit to somewhere else. Also, it only stops resource generation when triggered.

The ability is cheap and annoying as hell, booby trap is nice but its good to see different things so the game doesn't get stale.

You're right, but I've never used that ability in order to defend my own territories. Like you said, it's meant to be used to harass the enemy by sabotaging the frontline territories. However, the funny thing is that you can just capture the hostile territory and get more resource rather than setting a trap that denies the resource generation.

Edit: I thought it would completely deny the resource generation, so I'm going to cross out the Scorched Earth Policy part. I apologize for my fault.
17 Jul 2021, 23:39 PM
#4
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 302

The scorched earth policy is actually very useful to have if you get the chance to. You delay enemy cap for a very long time, which is very, very good. Partisans, on the other hand, get a booby trap ability, which kinda sucks but whatever, 5 man partisans are actually good units in certain situations, and that being when you have a plethora of yellow cover to set up DEADLY ambushes, where not even shock troops would work.

Partisans deserve the first strike ability at vet 0, that would make them actual ambush units. Falls get it at vet 0, why cant the partisans?
18 Jul 2021, 00:00 AM
#5
avatar of frostbite

Posts: 592

the commando coming as 3 is so dum... very unfair
18 Jul 2021, 07:11 AM
#6
avatar of NaOCl

Posts: 369

the commando coming as 3 is so dum... very unfair


This, It's stupid.
18 Jul 2021, 11:19 AM
#7
avatar of yunusozgul

Posts: 15

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Jul 2021, 23:39 PMKatukov
The scorched earth policy is actually very useful to have if you get the chance to. You delay enemy cap for a very long time, which is very, very good. Partisans, on the other hand, get a booby trap ability, which kinda sucks but whatever, 5 man partisans are actually good units in certain situations, and that being when you have a plethora of yellow cover to set up DEADLY ambushes, where not even shock troops would work.

Partisans deserve the first strike ability at vet 0, that would make them actual ambush units. Falls get it at vet 0, why cant the partisans?

I managed to figure out the exact usage of the Scorched Earth Policy ability too late which caused me to post an irrelevant feedback related to the ability itself. Thus, I crossed out the text about the ability so as to remove the misinformation. I apologize for my mistake, again.

I totally agree with your suggestion about Partisans. On the other hand, the actual issue regarding them is that they no longer arrive on the battlefield with their sub-machine guns which causes the Partisan Tactics commander to be useless since that commander used to rely on the element of suprise to harm the opponent.
18 Jul 2021, 14:12 PM
#8
avatar of NaOCl

Posts: 369


I managed to figure out the exact usage of the Scorched Earth Policy ability too late which caused me to post an irrelevant feedback related to the ability itself. Thus, I crossed out the text about the ability so as to remove the misinformation. I apologize for my mistake, again.

I totally agree with your suggestion about Partisans. On the other hand, the actual issue regarding them is that they no longer arrive on the battlefield with their sub-machine guns which causes the Partisan Tactics commander to be useless since that commander used to rely on the element of suprise to harm the opponent.


Just turn on hold fire, put them in cover and upgrade. It's what you have to do for wehr stormtroopers also.
18 Jul 2021, 19:11 PM
#9
avatar of Katukov

Posts: 302


I managed to figure out the exact usage of the Scorched Earth Policy ability too late which caused me to post an irrelevant feedback related to the ability itself. Thus, I crossed out the text about the ability so as to remove the misinformation. I apologize for my mistake, again.

I totally agree with your suggestion about Partisans. On the other hand, the actual issue regarding them is that they no longer arrive on the battlefield with their sub-machine guns which causes the Partisan Tactics commander to be useless since that commander used to rely on the element of suprise to harm the opponent.


yes, that sucks, but there's 5 of them now. The PPSh's SHOULD come at free, or the upgrade should reduce their received accuracy by a little bit, so they can survive more.

Or, even better, let that slide by, and instead REDUCE THEIR REINFORCE COST! They drop like flies, and cost more than penals at t4!!!!!
18 Jul 2021, 20:10 PM
#10
avatar of yunusozgul

Posts: 15

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Jul 2021, 14:12 PMNaOCl

Just turn on hold fire, put them in cover and upgrade. It's what you have to do for wehr stormtroopers also.

I don't agree with what you said about Stormtroopers. We should be able to dispatch not only Partisans but also Stormtroopers without being forced to grant their submachine guns. These two are known as infiltration units in-game, yet they're out of the element of surprise.
18 Jul 2021, 20:22 PM
#11
avatar of Orphan

Posts: 15

I agree and disagree with a few things on this list, but I do want to point out specifically that Partisans have been used in the most recent 1v1 tournament hosted by AECoH, New Battlegrounds, numerous times, even in the final best of 5, and to great effect. Both AT and ppsh partisans were used, and all of the commander's abilities saw use. It is in no way a weak commander.
19 Jul 2021, 14:59 PM
#12
avatar of yunusozgul

Posts: 15

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Jul 2021, 20:22 PMOrphan
I agree and disagree with a few things on this list, but I do want to point out specifically that Partisans have been used in the most recent 1v1 tournament hosted by AECoH, New Battlegrounds, numerous times, even in the final best of 5, and to great effect. Both AT and ppsh partisans were used, and all of the commander's abilities saw use. It is in no way a weak commander.

As far as I know, the proper usage of the infiltration units is to disrupt the opponent by sabotaging the hostile lines. However, you can't expect them to perform their job without taking advantage of the element of surprise since their main duty is to astonish the foe by suddenly striking the enemy forces so as to inflict heavy losses.

In a nutshell, I'm of the opinion that not only Partisans but also Stormtroopers must be dispatched with their submachine guns in order to encourage the utilization of them.
20 Jul 2021, 16:19 PM
#13
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 12388 | Subs: 1


As far as I know, the proper usage of the infiltration units is to disrupt the opponent by sabotaging the hostile lines. However, you can't expect them to perform their job without taking advantage of the element of surprise since their main duty is to astonish the foe by suddenly striking the enemy forces so as to inflict heavy losses.

In a nutshell, I'm of the opinion that not only Partisans but also Stormtroopers must be dispatched with their submachine guns in order to encourage the utilization of them.

Infiltration units where too good at killing weapon team and stealing the weapons or finishing off retreat squad and that is why they now spawn with reduced firepower.

The change was in a good direction.
29 Jul 2021, 13:51 PM
#14
avatar of yunusozgul

Posts: 15

Updated the list.

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Jul 2021, 16:19 PMVipper

Infiltration units where too good at killing weapon team and stealing the weapons or finishing off retreat squad and that is why they now spawn with reduced firepower.

The change was in a good direction.

Are you okay with the fact that Airborne Guards Troops arrive on the battlefield as a 6-person squad whereas Infiltration Commandos arrive as a 3-person squad? Moreover, the Airborne Guards Troops unit can either be upgraded for short range or long range while the Infiltration Commandos unit arrive with just submachine guns. I invite you to think logically about this situation.
29 Jul 2021, 14:38 PM
#15
avatar of rumartinez89

Posts: 289

Updated the list.


Are you okay with the fact that Airborne Guards Troops arrive on the battlefield as a 6-person squad whereas Infiltration Commandos arrive as a 3-person squad? Moreover, the Airborne Guards Troops unit can either be upgraded for short range or long range while the Infiltration Commandos unit arrive with just submachine guns. I invite you to think logically about this situation.


Commando's coming as 3 person squad is dumb to me but they aren't a good comparison to Airborne Guards. Airborne Guards are meant to be upgraded so that when they spawn they don't destroy team weapons as stated by Vipper. Their grenade is also on cooldown for the same reason. Like you said the infiltration commandos come with the submachine guns so if you get a good spawn you can quickly get wipes.
EDIT: Also since Airborne Guards are a 6 man team, even after a fight they might still be able to crew a weapon.

Personally I think the commandos should come as a full squad and have to be upgraded with SMG just like the other units.

29 Jul 2021, 14:40 PM
#16
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 12388 | Subs: 1

Updated the list.


Are you okay with the fact that Airborne Guards Troops arrive on the battlefield as a 6-person squad whereas Infiltration Commandos arrive as a 3-person squad? Moreover, the Airborne Guards Troops unit can either be upgraded for short range or long range while the Infiltration Commandos unit arrive with just submachine guns. I invite you to think logically about this situation.

AG are badly designed unit (they where supposed to be airdropped but proved impossible to fix animation) but that is not reason to badly designed other units.

IC comandos start with 3 entities because the start with SMG. The reason they where not given enflied is that the get "super brens" and would be OP at long range with them.

None of these solution are what I choose but there a logic behind them so "I invite you to think logically about this situation."
29 Jul 2021, 14:42 PM
#17
avatar of rumartinez89

Posts: 289

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Jul 2021, 14:40 PMVipper

AG are badly designed unit (they where supposed to be airdropped but proved impossible to fix animation) but that is not reason to badly designed other units.

IC comandos start with 3 entities because the start with SMG. The reason they where not given enflied is that the get "super brens" and would be OP at long range with them.

None of these solution are what I choose but there a logic behind them so "I invite you to think logically about this situation."


Could they just change the code so Infiltration gets regular stats instead of the super brens? And make them choose long range or short range just like airborne?
29 Jul 2021, 15:05 PM
#18
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 12388 | Subs: 1



Could they just change the code so Infiltration gets regular stats instead of the super brens? And make them choose long range or short range just like airborne?

There are plenty of solution instead of having almost identical commandos in 3 commanders with the main difference being how they deploy but last time I brought it up the MOD team did not seem very keen in changing the any of the commando units.

Main point here is that instant spawn with high DPS should be avoided since it can be used for cheesy retreat wipes or cheesy support weapon stealing.
29 Jul 2021, 19:06 PM
#19
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1799 | Subs: 1



Airborne Guards Troops
-These elite units should parachute so as to arrive on the battlefield. They're known as Soviet paratroopers, yet they still arrive as an infiltration unit like Stormtroopers and Partisans. The decision to make them look like an airborne unit who previously infiltrated the target area has never been reasonable since the day the Airborne Troops Tactics commander was announced.
-Either the upgrade that grants 3x DP-28 light-machine guns must have a slight improvement by augmenting its overall firepower or the 3th experience level must grant 40% accuracy bonus instead of only 30% to promote the usage of these light-machine guns.



I'm like 99% sure the balance team wasn't able to animate the parachuting in due to game engine limitations so they had to settle for infiltration. The first iteration of them had them appearing inside a smoke barrage like god damn ninjas in lieu of parachuting but you can imagine why they scraped that lol. I think the 3X DPs are fine - they do more damage than Regular guards and can be fired on the move which is a big perk. I think the most they need is a better/reworked Vet 1 ability and maybe give them Suppressing Fire similar to Paratroopers' ability (or have that be the new Vet 1).
29 Jul 2021, 21:35 PM
#20
avatar of yunusozgul

Posts: 15

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Jul 2021, 14:40 PMVipper

AG are badly designed unit (they where supposed to be airdropped but proved impossible to fix animation) but that is not reason to badly designed other units.

IC comandos start with 3 entities because the start with SMG. The reason they where not given enflied is that the get "super brens" and would be OP at long range with them.

None of these solution are what I choose but there a logic behind them so "I invite you to think logically about this situation."

I don't think that it's impossible to arrange a parachuting animation for the Airborne Guards Troops unit because I managed to see the possibility of this situation in the All Units mod.

I totally respect your point of view. However, the Infiltartion Commandos unit is more vulnerable than the Airborne Guards Troops unit and deserves to be enhanced so as to augment its overall performance in-game. Also, don't forget the fact that you need to make them retreat into the base in order to grant them additional weapons which means that you must renounce the element of surprise if you want your infiltration units to possess light machine guns.

Even the regular Commandos unit that comes with the Commando Regiment commander is better than Infiltration Commandos at disrupting the hostile lines since they arrive on the battlefield as a full squad. You're also able to train extra Commandos after capturing the territory point that your glider lands on.

The actual problem relating to Company of Heroes 2 is that the developers of this game don't seem to take care of their own game which causes some interesting issues like not being able to spectate a match that is listed on the Friends Game section to be fixed so late. For instance, they claimed that they fixed the silly UI bug that occurs in the Lienne Forest map. However, you can still suffer from this trouble while playing on that map which clearly shows us that those who consider themselves developer seem to be too reluctant to put this game in order.
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