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More maxims

8 Nov 2020, 22:49 PM
#1
avatar of Spoof

Posts: 449


Ok, I'll admit this wasn't my best game. Tips?
9 Nov 2020, 03:02 AM
#2
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

dont use the maxim... its very weak on its own and even more useless if the stuka is around... try the DSHK + 7 man... they synergize well...

for nondoc suppression you have the M5... it works well with double zis to keep off armor and weapon teams while the M5 can deal with blobs and aircraft... as with before the biggest weakness to this is the stuka...
9 Nov 2020, 04:49 AM
#3
avatar of Spoof

Posts: 449

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Nov 2020, 03:02 AMgbem
dont use the maxim... its very weak on its own and even more useless if the stuka is around... try the DSHK + 7 man... they synergize well...

for nondoc suppression you have the M5... it works well with double zis to keep off armor and weapon teams while the M5 can deal with blobs and aircraft... as with before the biggest weakness to this is the stuka...

Can you please watch the replay before posting?
9 Nov 2020, 07:54 AM
#4
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Nov 2020, 04:49 AMSpoof

Can you please watch the replay before posting?


i cant do it right now since im away and will be away for the week... i assumed that this is a how to use the maxim thread... if its a complaint against maxim SPAM id say use the solution you use with any other MG...

as OST u can mortar or smoke maxims off or even shoot them to death with the MG42... youre most likely to win any MG vs MG engagement... if the maxim is in cover then the riflenade is excellent against it... panzerwerfers also wipe maxims if fired at minimum range... brummbars work but you need to stand clear of ZIS/SU-85

as OKW you can sidestep the maxim just a little and potentially lavanade it with ease... maxims take 4 seconds to suppress at long range... if its spammed then you still have more options... as mentioned the stuka zu fuss is an excellent solution and so is the LEIG
9 Nov 2020, 08:41 AM
#5
avatar of Aarotron

Posts: 563

from 5 minute mark soviet guy had 4 maxims and 2 more coming with no supporting infantry, his ally only having conscripts. You also had small stockpile of mp so you could have bought second mortar to apply pressure on maxims. Flamethrower halftrack would have been ideal there.

Also it did not help that your ally was quite bad, losing halftrack for no reason and charging head first to places where maxims had been set up. your allies were also doing really bad on the other side of the map. Choice of command pnz 4 was rather peculiar. Normal p4 or even ostwind would have served you better.Skipping to brumbar would have also been good choice. Panzerwerfer was still good choice to go for.

Overall at the time you got werfer the match was already sealed. you still got things to improve, but i will say that you teammates were certainly not help to your issues.
9 Nov 2020, 16:09 PM
#6
avatar of Spoof

Posts: 449

from 5 minute mark soviet guy had 4 maxims and 2 more coming with no supporting infantry, his ally only having conscripts. You also had small stockpile of mp so you could have bought second mortar to apply pressure on maxims. Flamethrower halftrack would have been ideal there.

Also it did not help that your ally was quite bad, losing halftrack for no reason and charging head first to places where maxims had been set up. your allies were also doing really bad on the other side of the map. Choice of command pnz 4 was rather peculiar. Normal p4 or even ostwind would have served you better.Skipping to brumbar would have also been good choice. Panzerwerfer was still good choice to go for.

Overall at the time you got werfer the match was already sealed. you still got things to improve, but i will say that you teammates were certainly not help to your issues.

Damn, you're right. I totally forgot about the flamer halftrack, I don't really take 4v4s that seriously. I thought the Command P4s infantry gun would be useful but I guess I always overestimate that thing.
9 Nov 2020, 16:15 PM
#7
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Nov 2020, 16:09 PMSpoof

Damn, you're right. I totally forgot about the flamer halftrack, I don't really take 4v4s that seriously. I thought the Command P4s infantry gun would be useful but I guess I always overestimate that thing.

The gun is average to bad. Valentine has a gun that is better both in AI and AT
10 Nov 2020, 14:53 PM
#8
avatar of Hannibal
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Posts: 3102 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Nov 2020, 16:15 PMVipper

The gun is average to bad. Valentine has a gun that is better both in AI and AT


Are you sure about this?
Stat wise the Command P4 gun is quite good vs infantry compared to a normal P4, also MMX's simulation shows that. Can't remember though when I last used the Command version. And while the gun lacks AI power compared to the Valentine it also has another MG.
10 Nov 2020, 14:55 PM
#9
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1



Are you sure about this?
Stat wise the Command P4 gun is quite good vs infantry compared to a normal P4, also MMX's simulation shows that. Can't remember though when I last used the Command version. And while the gun lacks AI power compared to the Valentine it also has another MG.

Valentine has a superior gun both in AI and AT and vet faster.

The only thing C.PzIV guns has is reload.
10 Nov 2020, 15:48 PM
#10
avatar of Hannibal
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Posts: 3102 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Nov 2020, 14:55 PMVipper

Valentine has a superior gun both in AI and AT and vet faster.

The only thing C.PzIV guns has is reload.

AT yes but AI?
Reload and scatter area are very good on the Command P4. Plus it has the same MGs like a normal P4, so overall it probably does perform decently vs infantry.
10 Nov 2020, 16:00 PM
#11
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1


AT yes but AI?
Reload and scatter area are very good on the Command P4. Plus it has the same MGs like a normal P4, so overall it probably does perform decently vs infantry.


valentine
AOE

AOE Radius 2.5
Distance near 0.25
Distance mid 1
Distance far 1.5
Damage near 120
Damage mid 48
Damage far 24
80 DMG distance 0.67

Scatter
Scatter angle 6
Distance offset 0.3
Distance ratio 1
Distance max 6.2

C.panzer

AOE

AOE Radius 2.5
Distance near 0.75
Distance mid 1.25
Distance far 1.875
Damage near 80
Damage mid 28
Damage far 4
80 DMG distance 0.75

Scatter

Scatter angle 5.5
Distance offset 0.25
Distance ratio 1
Distance max 5.4

Damage drop off for PzIV is simply to high compared to the Valentine, damage mid 28/48 far 4/24

Other thing worth noting although not related:
Penetration CP
Penetration near 55
Penetration mid 50
Penetration far 45

Val
Penetration near 120
Penetration mid 100
Penetration far 80

And valentine has 0.75(vs0.5) moving accuracy, XP value 1050 (1970) and shared veterancy.
10 Nov 2020, 16:09 PM
#12
avatar of Hannibal
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Posts: 3102 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Nov 2020, 16:00 PMVipper

snip

I think I phrased it ambiguously, but I was mostly comparing to the normal P4. The Valentine is not an option as Ostheer, so this info does not help you if you need something to deal with enemy infantry.
10 Nov 2020, 16:45 PM
#13
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1


I think I phrased it ambiguously, but I was mostly comparing to the normal P4. The Valentine is not an option as Ostheer, so this info does not help you if you need something to deal with enemy infantry.

As ostheer one is better off building an ostwind since it comes earlier and is deadlier.

The main reason to build a C.Pz as a fighting unit imo is is one skipped T3 and went straight to T4.
10 Nov 2020, 17:43 PM
#17
avatar of Gbpirate
Senior Editor Badge

Posts: 1150

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Nov 2020, 16:00 PMVipper

C.Panther


Damage drop off for PzIV


Do you have the right stats here? is the "C.Panther" a typo on your end?

If the stats are correct, it seems like the command P4 would be more consistent in its damage with the higher near radius and lower scatter. Not sure what RoF is for either but CP4 doesn't seem that bad on paper.

Its buff is really good though, right? Is it still -20% received damage? I feel like it was changed a while ago but to something less powerful but still good.
10 Nov 2020, 17:55 PM
#18
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1



Do you have the right stats here? is the "C.Panther" a typo on your end?

stat are correct its typo.


If the stats are correct, it seems like the command P4 would be more consistent in its damage with the higher near radius and lower scatter. Not sure what RoF is for either but CP4 doesn't seem that bad on paper.

It problem has more to do with ridiculous requirement than performance since the tech and CP make it come late in all modes and one is better off building some other tank.

It it was me I would change the gun to have switchable munition, HE be similar with Stug -E(with sorter range) and a hallow charge mod as AT.


Its buff is really good though, right? Is it still -20% received damage? I feel like it was changed a while ago but to something less powerful but still good.
Aura is 0.9
10 Nov 2020, 18:21 PM
#19
avatar of Hannibal
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Posts: 3102 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Nov 2020, 16:45 PMVipper

As ostheer one is better off building an ostwind since it comes earlier and is deadlier.

The main reason to build a C.Pz as a fighting unit imo is is one skipped T3 and went straight to T4.


Actually the Command P4 fares very well vs infantry. I just ran a quick test with 6 Valentines/P4/Cmd P4 vs either 6 Volks or Rifles in 1v1 engagements. Although it's hard to tell how much error this test has, Valentines needed between 23-45 seconds to kill the enemy squads, the P4s were both at 20-30/35-ish at range 30.

The Command P4 does not seem to be worse than the Valentine against infantry, rather even better than it. And the P4s themselves did not seem to differ that much.
10 Nov 2020, 18:51 PM
#20
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1



Actually the Command P4 fares very well vs infantry. I just ran a quick test with 6 Valentines/P4/Cmd P4 vs either 6 Volks or Rifles in 1v1 engagements. Although it's hard to tell how much error this test has, Valentines needed between 23-45 seconds to kill the enemy squads, the P4s were both at 20-30/35-ish at range 30.

The Command P4 does not seem to be worse than the Valentine against infantry, rather even better than it. And the P4s themselves did not seem to differ that much.

Interesting experiment.

Even if PzIV AI is slightly better Valentine has a better gun due to superior AT.

As I pointed out the problem has more to with call-in requirement than the performance.
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