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Grens changes

8 Jul 2020, 17:37 PM
#61
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1289

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Jul 2020, 12:59 PMLeo251


Yeah, I know the existance of that new damage reduction since a few patches ago.
But first of all, you have to reach vet3 with grens. You have to survive the LV stage, specially T70.

This is another example of retarted parabolic buff by Relic, when all that is needed is add a 5th men from stock, or maybe an upgrade like Cons or Sections.


You wanna give cons a stock ai upgrade? Svt's every game sweat.
Normal nades? sweat as well.
An mg that aint shit at vet 0? Sweat.
T34 armour buffed, main gun buffed to be on par while remaing cheaper? Sweat

Its only gonna mess up more then it fixes giving ost stock 5th man. Soviets have ai upgrades and nades doctrinal for a reason. Their squads are to big for it to be stock.

Squishy units should have better damage output, wich grens and pgrens do have imo. Grens need the recc acc at vet3 back and the lmg need a long range dps buff at bp3 imo. Grens are defensive inf. The damage vs supressed units is also a good idea for a buff.
If you want to brute force you way through use pgrens 222 flamtrack mortar etc.

Wanna use mainlines to brute force your way through play usf soviets.


9 Jul 2020, 12:18 PM
#62
avatar of Yourcall

Posts: 40

No, why should grens be able to take on the best fully upgraded of allied infantry on their own.

Rifles require racks and double bars @120 muni 150 mp 15 fuel.
Sections require racks, 5 man, and double brens @90 muni 300mp 50 fuel.
(single bren will probably do with 5 man fighting from heavy cover)
To beat stock lmg grens.

Neither of them have grenades at this point.
Sections dont have snares either.

Making Grens go toe to toe with the best of allied mainline just like that is a joke.
9 Jul 2020, 12:22 PM
#63
avatar of Yourcall

Posts: 40

So yeah, some Allied mainline beats stock lmg grens.

Over USF in return you have non doc rocket arti, a greater variety of units unless they sidetech everything at an extra cost.
Over UKF in return you have non doc rocket arti, non doc mortars, non doc AI vehicle, a greater variety of units and snares on your mainline.
9 Jul 2020, 12:39 PM
#64
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3104 | Subs: 2

No, why should grens be able to take on the best fully upgraded of allied infantry on their own.

Rifles require racks and double bars @120 muni 150 mp 15 fuel.
Sections require racks, 5 man, and double brens @90 muni 300mp 50 fuel.
(single bren will probably do with 5 man fighting from heavy cover)
To beat stock lmg grens.

Neither of them have grenades at this point.
Sections dont have snares either.

Making Grens go toe to toe with the best of allied mainline just like that is a joke.


The problem with that comparison though is that it only held true if USF/UKF would pay for their plus and the side techs come in addition to that.
At least fuel wise, this is not the case if you consider both full tech and the required tech cost to medium. MP wise there is also not a huge difference iirc, although MP economy is quite a bit more variable.

Those 1:1 comparisons (as you also did in your second post) are not bad by default, but the way you did was neglecting the whole context around the units, faction design and you also left out the advantages of USF/UKF over OST to skew it into OSTs favor.
9 Jul 2020, 21:52 PM
#65
avatar of Sp33dSnake

Posts: 149

There is a reason people are using ass grens, ostruppen, and VSL's over Grens.

It's the same reason why conscripts fell out of grace before the 7 man/SVT buff. Soviet players were using penals like crazy because they could absolutely roflstomp Grens (as they should, they are 300mp), and Ost, other than building MG42's (which could be satchled) had no answer for it, except maybe a sniper supplanting a gren squad engaged with a penal. (And penals could still rush grens under cover and force them off)

You could force them off and wait for PG's...which still drop units against penals, their bundle grenade is not as good, and their AT package doesn't snare. And reinforcement cost is enormous.

I'm not for giving Grens an OP buff, but when players are preferring a 200mp unit like Ostruppen over a mainline infantry that costs 240mp and requires tech, it seems pretty clear the 240mp unit does not have enough value in it to purchase.

Why not give them more HP to increase their survivalbility?
9 Jul 2020, 22:08 PM
#66
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

There is a reason people are using ass grens, ostruppen, and VSL's over Grens.

That reason is PGs arriving sooner and roflstomping everything on field when rushed, leading to more map control and extremely fast LV.

It's the same reason why conscripts fell out of grace before the 7 man/SVT buff. Soviet players were using penals like crazy because they could absolutely roflstomp Grens (as they should, they are 300mp), and Ost, other than building MG42's (which could be satchled) had no answer for it, except maybe a sniper supplanting a gren squad engaged with a penal. (And penals could still rush grens under cover and force them off)

No, its not even close to same reason as cons pre 7 man - cons did not scaled at all without doctrinal commitment and just barely with it as ppsh was nothing but a massive bleed on yourself for little gain until vet3, grens do scale.

You could force them off and wait for PG's...which still drop units against penals, their bundle grenade is not as good, and their AT package doesn't snare. And reinforcement cost is enormous.


I'm not for giving Grens an OP buff, but when players are preferring a 200mp unit like Ostruppen over a mainline infantry that costs 240mp and requires tech, it seems pretty clear the 240mp unit does not have enough value in it to purchase.

Not a singular living sould picks osttruppen over grens because of scaling, but you've already proven you have no slightest idea why they are not being picked -IN 1v1 EXCLUSIVELY-.

Try playing without grens in team games and not on 4 digit rank tier and you will see foregoing them is a complete suicide.

Why not give them more HP to increase their survivalbility?

That's what their new vet3 does.
9 Jul 2020, 23:10 PM
#67
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

and Ost, other than building MG42's (which could be satchled) had no answer for it, except maybe a sniper supplanting a gren squad engaged with a penal. (And penals could still rush grens under cover and force them off)



In what universe is the answer to penals an Ostheer sniper? I have no words for how absolutely insane this comment is.
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