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russian armor

60 range TD

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8 Apr 2020, 07:55 AM
#81
avatar of SuperHansFan

Posts: 833



Panthers vs. TDs:

Flanking is suicide and most attempts fail

AT gun have no mobility and easily neutralized

Shreck? haha

Can someone give the Allies some captured TD?


Panther can frontally drive into a FF from max range and win due to the latters poor DPS

Stop trying to rope three units as the same when they have completely different stats
8 Apr 2020, 08:06 AM
#82
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

Panther can frontally drive into a FF from max range and win due to the latters poor DPS


The Firefly doesn't have poor DPM against heavy vehicles because it deals more damage than the other TDs. Its TTK on a Panther is the same as the Jackson's (~33s from the first shot disregarding accuracy/pen) because it needs 1 less shot to kill it. Same for 1040hp heavies, and against 400hp lights (which it kills faster than a Jackson or even an SU-85).

Once it gets vet 3 (240 damage) it actually has significantly lower TTK against a Panther than a Jackson (19s vs 25s or 22s with HVAP).


It only has lower DPM against medium tanks because it has overkill damage (until vet 3) against 640hp vehicles.
8 Apr 2020, 08:31 AM
#83
avatar of Princeps

Posts: 214



Panther can frontally drive into a FF from max range and win due to the latters poor DPS

Stop trying to rope three units as the same when they have completely different stats



LOL another one... u know FF have Tulip rockets?

if u drive a pather direct to FF from max range the Panther is dead

Even if panther blitzes wont help.

all TD have there special abilitys... Su has sight, FF has tulip .. well Jackson has super repair, high speed, thoughness, great dmg, high accuracy and and and.
8 Apr 2020, 09:43 AM
#86
avatar of SuperHansFan

Posts: 833



The Firefly doesn't have poor DPM against heavy vehicles because it deals more damage than the other TDs. Its TTK on a Panther is the same as the Jackson's (33s from the first shot disregarding accuracy/pen) because it needs 1 less shot to kill it. Same for 1040hp heavies, and against 400hp lights (which it kills faster than a Jackson or even an SU-85).

Once it gets vet 3 (240 damage) it actually has significantly lower TTK against a Panther than a Jackson (19s vs 25s or 22s with HVAP).


It only has lower DPM against medium tanks because it has overkill damage (until vet 3) against 640hp vehicles.


Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure SU-85 has differing TTK even vs panther, you yourself point out Jackson and FF have varying performance vs different tanks due to RoF and damage differences. Yet a repeated argument by some on this forum is all three units are apparently OP for the same reasons and lumped together in their calls for nerfs.
8 Apr 2020, 09:45 AM
#87
avatar of SuperHansFan

Posts: 833




LOL another one... u know FF have Tulip rockets?

if u drive a pather direct to FF from max range the Panther is dead

Even if panther blitzes wont help.

all TD have there special abilitys... Su has sight, FF has tulip .. well Jackson has super repair, high speed, thoughness, great dmg, high accuracy and and and.


Tulips are a muni sink that help vs big cats like KT.

Trying to hit a flanking panther especially at range with tulips is difficult to say the least.
8 Apr 2020, 10:17 AM
#89
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure SU-85 has differing TTK even vs panther, you yourself point out Jackson and FF have varying performance vs different tanks due to RoF and damage differences. Yet a repeated argument by some on this forum is all three units are apparently OP for the same reasons and lumped together in their calls for nerfs.


The SU-85 does have slightly better DPM (TTK vs Panther is ~28s from the first shot, disregarding accuracy and penetrations) but it has the obvious weakness of not having a turret against a diving Panther or other vehicles.

For what it's worth I think the Firefly is balanced (hits hard but slow reload and mediocre mobility), the SU-85 is mostly balanced (although I think the selfspotting is bad because it goes against the combined arms principle of the game, even if it has a significant drawback) except for its very high penetration, and the Jackson is slightly overperforming on purpose because it's the only real reliable late game AT for USF.

Obviously the SU-85's and Jackson's situation isn't ideal but tinkering with them will be very complex and have significant ripple effects, and that's not really something we want to touch at this point.
8 Apr 2020, 10:21 AM
#90
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8



The SU-85 does have slightly better DPM (TTK vs Panther is ~28s from the first shot, disregarding accuracy and penetrations) but it has the obvious weakness of not having a turret against a diving Panther or other vehicles.

For what it's worth I think the Firefly is balanced (hits hard but slow reload and mediocre mobility), the SU-85 is mostly balanced (although I think the selfspotting is bad because it goes against the combined arms principle of the game, even if it has a significant drawback) except for its very high penetration, and the Jackson is slightly overperforming on purpose because it's the only real reliable late game AT for USF.

Obviously the SU-85's and Jackson's situation isn't ideal but tinkering with them will be very complex and have significant ripple effects, and that's not really something we want to touch at this point.


Aaaand
/thread

As I have said, there comes a time, where "balance" problem becomes "L2P" problem and 60range TDs are the latter now.
8 Apr 2020, 10:35 AM
#91
avatar of Princeps

Posts: 214



The SU-85 does have slightly better DPM (TTK vs Panther is ~28s from the first shot, disregarding accuracy and penetrations) but it has the obvious weakness of not having a turret against a diving Panther or other vehicles.

For what it's worth I think the Firefly is balanced (hits hard but slow reload and mediocre mobility), the SU-85 is mostly balanced (although I think the selfspotting is bad because it goes against the combined arms principle of the game, even if it has a significant drawback) except for its very high penetration, and the Jackson is slightly overperforming on purpose because it's the only real reliable late game AT for USF.

Obviously the SU-85's and Jackson's situation isn't ideal but tinkering with them will be very complex and have significant ripple effects, and that's not really something we want to touch at this point.


Wait what???? ah ok so the best pak ... handheld double AT on every Unit.. is not enough?
8 Apr 2020, 10:36 AM
#92
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8



Wait what???? ah ok so the best pak ... handheld double AT on every Unit.. is not enough?

It would be, if tigers didn't existed you know.
8 Apr 2020, 10:38 AM
#93
avatar of Princeps

Posts: 214


It would be, if tigers didn't existed you know.


ah yes i remenber back than when every commander got a Tiger
8 Apr 2020, 11:55 AM
#94
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

Glad to see that moderation acknowledge that SU-85/M36 is currently OP.
8 Apr 2020, 12:09 PM
#95
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Apr 2020, 11:55 AMVipper
Glad to see that moderation acknowledge that SU-85/M36 is currently OP.

Now we're waiting for you to acknowledge that nothing will be done about it, because its intended because of poor alternatives and any further changes could have potentially catastrophic effects.
8 Apr 2020, 12:11 PM
#96
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

Now we're waiting for you to acknowledge that nothing will be done about it


8 Apr 2020, 12:11 PM
#97
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1


Now we're waiting for you to acknowledge that nothing will be done about it, because its intended because of poor alternatives.


So that means that have you acknowledge at I have been right for 4 years now saying that they are OP and you have been wrong for t4 years now. Glad that you have finally accepted it.
8 Apr 2020, 12:13 PM
#98
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8




A list of units this change affects:
-P4 at range above 30.
8 Apr 2020, 12:15 PM
#99
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Apr 2020, 12:11 PMVipper


So that means that have you acknowledge at I have been right for 4 years now saying that they are OP and you have been wrong for t4 years now. Glad that you have finally accepted it.

That also means you have to acknowledge that I have been right for 4 years now, saying their firepower is L2P issue and have to stay where it is.
Glad you've finally accepted it as well, we can now leave 60 range TDs behind us and move on to next topic.
8 Apr 2020, 12:16 PM
#100
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1


A list of units this change affects:
-P4 at range above 30.

Try to get your stat right.
PzIV penetration is
Penetration near 125
Penetration mid 115
Penetration far 110

It affect PzIv at all ranges, it all affect other vehicles like Ostwind...
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