I will not even going read personal remarks any more but let me try to explain to you the affects of vet armor bonus and HP bonus for Brumbar and Dozer vs dedicated TDs.
A vet 0 Stug firing on vet 0 Dozer needs 5 penetrating shots and at least 4 reload to kill it.
The chance of getting 5 penetrating shots in a row is 44%.
The vet 2 stug firing on vet 2 Dozer now needs 6 penetrating and at lest 5 reload to kill it.
The chance of getting 6 penetrating shots in a row is 38%.
A vet 0 Su-85 firing on vet 0 Brumbar need 5 penetrating shots and at least 4 reload to kill it.
The chance of getting 5 penetrating shots in a row is 66%.
The vet 2 Su-85 firing on vet 2 Brumabr still need 5 penetrating and at lest 4 reload to kill it.
The chance of getting 5 penetrating shots in a row vs the higher armor with the higher penetration it gets, is now 100%.
Can you now do the same, but instead of StuG using Panther now, so we have actual top tier TD potential compared to top tier TD potential instead of biased T3 vs T4 units comparison?
StuG is closer to SU-76 then SU-85 in terms of both, cost and performance and you bloody well know it.
Having a turret or not is 100% irrelevant, cost is also 100% irrelevant here, because SU-85 is supposed to counter heavily armored targes, while StuG is most certainly not, that's Panthers job, so again, do the same comparison using correct unit for the context, the Panther. If you REALLY insist on using StuG as staple of your argument, then do the numbers for its equivalent, SU-76 against brummbar and report factual, unbiased results.
It would also be awesome if you stopped using these comparisons that do not involve same tier/role units and actually stop invoking observation bias in people who might not know better. You do these mental gymnastics all the time to prove your point without comparing units that actually should be compared.
SU-76 and StuG serve purpose of countering meds.
SU-85 and Panther serve purpose of countering heavies.
Any kind of cross comparisons serve no other purpose then to invoke observation bias in people you try to prove wrong.