Not sure how this got turned into a kill the sniper thread, but I have something to say about it that has not yet been mentioned. I gave soviet snipers a good try, but what made me stop using them more than anything else was grenadier rifle grenades. A single RG can take a sniper squad out in one hit prettymuch every time and at a good range. It seems every German player just goes for my snipers with rifle grenades. If you aren't really sharp and continually monitoring it you can lose your squad easily.
As was mentioned earlier, a halftrack rush with a panzer grenadier squad is pretty good as well. What's more, the halftrack can reinforce sniped members on the spot. If you continually make the sniper retreat, you are making your enemy regret not making an extra squad instead.
Cyridius, if strafing run is that much of an issue for you go tier 3 and get a quad cannon. The problem with that, I admit, is that you are stuck with t34s but you can get around that by calling in commander tanks. The half-track itself isn't so bad if you get it out early enough and use it as a logistics unit. |
Hello, I have been playing multiplayer pretty much since release after beating the single player campaign. I have played both sides soviet and German but mainly soviet. I consider myself a pretty serious player, one who has played since the release of COH1 and tried many different strategies. I have formulated some opinions on the balance in the game so far. Keep in mind this is just what I have gathered from the game and in no way am I saying that these things need to be patched or fixed. I play mostly soviet so this is an obviously bias list as well. Just some honest feedback from someone who has recently played many games.
Shortlist:
-MG42s are difficult to flank effectively.
-Molotovs are a weapon somewhat reliant on a German player’s carelessness.
-Grenadiers are surprisingly strong against all infantry when upgraded with MG42s, and rifle grenades.
-Flammenwerfer upgraded Halftracks are very strong for how early they come out, perhaps too strong.
-The T-70 is strong against infantry.
-Quad cannon mounts are somewhat weak against infantry.
-T34s, while costing sufficiently less manpower than panzer 4s, are marginalized to a niche role.
-SU-85s are pretty strong yet in many ways are necessary for soviets in the end game.
-The assault support doctrine’s strafing run ability effectively halts infantry operations in a large area for a low munitions cost. Soviets lack a wide variety of anti-air options
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-120MM soviet command mortar is quite strong against most targets.
First of all, I want to cover infantry combat and early game strategies. One of the weapons that characterizes a company of heroes game is the machine gun. Without it, the game is greatly simplified to masses of infantry struggling to outnumber one another. These weapons turn the map into a puzzle which you use your conscripts to try and outflank and weave through your opponent. If your enemy concentrates too many MGs in one spot, you take the other areas of the map. If they keep massing, you go for armor and crush them. It really is a brilliant system. I also think the decision to have a 4 man MG42 squad was the right one since it makes the Maxim1918/MG42 comparison a little more symmetric.
That said, I think that MG42s are somewhat strong against conscripts. They go from suppression to pinning very quickly and dispatch troops even faster. It makes it difficult to pull off the traditional COH1 rifle flank. Even if you manage to outmaneuver an MG42, they can turn their weapon and effectively render two squads useless from multiple sides. Perhaps it is because conscripts are weak in close range situations or that their grenade is actually a jar of napalm which brings me to my next point.
I think Molotov’s are a valuable addition to the red army, but honestly I think it is a weapon which relies on your opponent being careless. It is a pretty big investment to get your unit in close and throwing a Molotov, which sets down a fire field that infantry can just sidestep. I have even seen machine guns move out of the fire field, redeploy and continue to suppress my squad. A holistic strategy seems to rely on abilities other than the Molotov to deal with machine guns such as mortars or the M3 scout car with flamethrower engineers. I am trying snipers, but they are a high risk/low reward unit to bring to the field.
German infantry in general is quite strong. Grenadiers can be upgraded with MG42s, which allow them to overpower standard conscript squads. This is in a more true way than the Molotov since the LMG42 cannot be avoided. Granadiers also have rifle grenades which are faster acting and have superior range to the Molotov. Two grenadier squads caught by a maxim team can use their rifle grenades to severely punish the weapon team, even when attacking head on. As far as concripts go, the command ability “Hit the dirt!” is an open invitation for grenadiers to move a few paces away and deploy rifle grenadies on the self-pinned squad. Each individual man in a grenadier squad also has higher health than a red army soldier which allows them to resist area attacks such as mortars and flamethrowers better. It seems that the grenadier is an all-around superior unit to the conscript. Maybe penal batalions are a better investment, but then there are panzer grenadiers who I believe outclass penal battalions as well due to their fast acting assault rifles and more robust anti-tank options.
An important milestone in the game is when a soviet player identifies the first enemy vehicle. In my experience the most devastating vehicles to be unprepared for are Flammenwerfer upgraded halftracks or ostwind flackpanzers. Each are hard counters to infantry, but the halftrack is especially devastating because it can come out so early. At this point a soviet player is forced into using AT grenades, guard squads or if they choose to be risky, make a play with an AT gun. Each of these units is vulnerable to a halftrack which requires things to go smoothly to bring the unit down successfully. A well microd halftrack can linger its way into the late game, restricting soviet movement until more anti-vehicle options become available such as the T-70.
The T-70 for me is strange. Overall, I think it is a strong unit. It is surprisingly effective against enemy infantry and is fast enough to avoid things that can take it down such as a Panzer 4 or ostwind. With good micro, it can turn a game much in the same way a flammentrack or ostwind can, but it is not quite as devastating as either of them. If they arrive in the correct stage of the game catching the enemy unprepared for anti-vehicle play, it can be a strong unit, but that window closes quickly so it’s important to act fast.
Quad cannon upgraded halftracks are an important part of the soviet army to guard from strafing run attacks, and they used to be very good in COH1, but I think they were toned down in this game. I used 2 grenadier squads to bring a quad cannon down to half health and only lost a single man doing it. It seems to be a much better option to put troops in the halftrack and use it as a motorized fort.
Now I get to the last unit T3 can produce, the T34. It is a unit I really want to like, but it is lacking in so many ways. First point is the obvious one: the vehicle has no chance against a panzer 4 in a straight fight. I think the design behind this is that T34s are supposed to be used in number due to their lower cost. They also have a ramming ability that can be used to force a stalemate. The idea being that a T34 can be used to blunt and armored assault allowing an infantry lead battle to finish it. This design makes the T34 a niche unit which I’m not sure I am a fan of. It is only marginally effective against infantry due to their higher individual health, and can be driven away by a panzershrek squad and even an ostwind which is meant to be used against infantry. Historically, the T34 was the main soviet tank of the eastern front and it fought and won in many head on armored conflicts. Unlike western tanks, the T34 was not lacking from its German counterparts due to its sloped armor and relatively low profile which offered reasonable protection.
At any rate, the way that the soviets deal with armor in this game is with the SU-85. It’s an obvious strong unit for the soviets, one I hear many German players complain about. It has long range, decent armor and a gun that pretty much penetrates anything. It is, however, not a tank but a tank destroyer. Its effectiveness against infantry is very poor. If you’re a German player and your opponent is getting SU-85s consider just staying with infantry and maybe getting a panzershrek squad. I have won some games as German that way since the soviet player invested their fuel into a counter unit which did not have anything to counter.
As a side comment, I would like to use the SU-76 more as artillery support, but I often feel pressured to get an SU-85 since that’s the stage in the game where the armor starts coming out. Often time I manage to lose the SU-76 to carelessness due to its thin armor as well.
Lastly, I want to talk about the commander ability that manages to ruin my day, the assault support doctrine strafing run. It has such a wide area of effect and pins instantly, effectively stopping my infantry operations completely. At only 120 munitions, this is a pretty strong ability and it lingers for a long time. If you don’t have a Tier 3 building up to get a halftrack with a quad cannon it can really put a stopper in your plans. I’m not sure if it’s overpowered because it does have a counter, but since soviet anti air options are so limited I think it can be overwhelming.
Lastly Lastly, I want to talk about a unit soviets have that’s pretty strong, the 120mm Mortar. As German, I have faced against players who have just one or two of these pelting my troops constantly. Their range is so far it makes them difficult to get to especially when they are defended. When they land they can drop a squad to 25% effectiveness, forcing a retreat. I can remember a specific game which I was wining and the opponent came back pretty much on this unit alone, keeping me off key points and making a general mess of my infantry.
I’m not sure if this turned into a rant or not, but that’s sort of my thoughts on balance for the game at the moment. Overall it has been a very engaging game which has kept me thinking of new ways to best my opponent. It will be interesting to see how the meta game plays out and what sort of strategies high ranking players will develop.
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