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how is this constantly overlooked I have no idea. or maybe 1v1 is where the shizz is at. i know i have been harping on this but seriously, this thing is a major problem.
pathetically, the design decision for this game is asymmetry. germans have powerful tanks, soviets have more than capable assault guns. it would all be fine if everything followed the rule, but nope elefants shits on that and brings in more firepower than germans really need.
what really happens is the elefant, nullifies every single advantage that the soviets have in the anti tank department, good assault guns. coming with 400 frontal armour, 1280hp and 100range. its impregnable by all except the AT gun and su85. however, it shits on su85s so hard, its up to the humble AT gun to do something about it, which is at best, awful against it.
that insane frontal armour makes max pen values unreliable, with less than 50% to pen and that beefy hp forces AT guns to shoot for EXTREME extended periods of time and risk exposure to artillery fire, guaranteed. combo that with 100 range, its will be sited well behind lines, safe from almost everything maybe a stray arty fire or so.
soviets, lacking in AT tanks, cannot rely on flanking or shock and awe tactics like germans with their panzercats and blitzkreig that darts around faster than a cat who accidentally turned on the vacuum cleaner. so attacking its rear armour its ALMOST out of the question. 1 will have to be close to brain dead to expose its rear to assault guns and AT guns.
the is2 is an exception, its capable of flanking and killing an elefant, but it is not invulnerable to the german infantry that will be swarming the elefant, schrecks and pfaust will blow it up quite easy. or a panther to check it nice and good and is2 becomes more or less target practice.
still not convinced? here's the kick. you might argue or try to find an effective counter in the form of 152mm howitzer. but nope, the thing is, the elefant doctrine comes with anti arty abilities too. they have recon runs and that isnt enough? they get a bombing run that 1 shots howitzers. it doesnt take much imagination as to how to blow up a stationary equipment with this 2 abilities.
still arguing with guards and bombing runs? thats unreliable at best, no sane german player will leave elefants unprotected and swarm it with infantry and sneaking a guards squad through probably vetted grens and pgrens is pretty much suicide, not to mention staying stationary for the duration of buttoning.
but then again, this forums is too pro german, so i must prepare myself for the incoming onslaught on my psyche and something about my mother being fucked by a random guy on the net 5thousand miles away.
still better to let my views known than sit back and do nothing. let me know how badly u guys think of me. thanks. |
Not that I have never seen it happen, but I rarely ever see it happen. The actual accuracy rate vs planes and the feelings sov players have of it's "magnificent anti air abiliy" is not gelling.
then im sure if you were on the receiving end, you might get a better perspective. easier too since u'd always hear pilots screaming all the time the moment they appear for recon runs. this however, is only for recon planes as far as im concerned. as to strafes i have no idea. |
Previously the devs said the scout car and mg pintles have less than 2 percent chance to shoot down a plane. So it looks like Sovs are not the victim after all.
pretty sure 4/5 recon planes that are sent out, mounted mg42s on p4 and panthers are gunning it down in the span of 5 to 15 seconds.
that is consistent with what many have said before. |
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there isnt much of a problem with its performance, other than its hp which could be buffed to be in line with the tiger.
its the cost that is wrecking this amazing tank. it costs a tad too high. |
IS2 can win vs Tiger? Are you guys played CoH2 for once time btw?
basically they are saying if ur is2 has enough support to prevent a tiger from chasing down ur is2 and exploit its advantage of its high ROF, the is2 has a good chance of beating the tiger. |
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probably the top 3 most cost effective tanks in game are
1) tiger, it basically checks every single tank in the game and has great initiative with great armour, decent penetration and dps. it is not too shabby against infantry too. turreted means it is able to make use of shotblockers to great effect. low to average micro needed to use it to great effect.
2) elefants. no clear soviet hard counters, most counters are rng (howie barrages) or gimmicky (guards button + bomb strike) immense range and very heavy damage invalidates soviet armour forces them to go static defenses against german armour which leaves them open to artillery.
3 is probably a tie between su85 and panthers. for cost, su85 is capable of wrecking all german armour except the elefant, but they are usually limited by terrain/availability of vehicles snares. panther is mainly because of its mobility, dominance in tank combat, improved range and capability to blitz. |
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it is still horribly priced regardless of its anti infantry capabilities since it is effectively checked by a single panther. it should cost less than a regular tiger tank.
whereas it takes 2 su85s to check a single tiger tank which cost about as much as a tiger tank, mp and fuel wise. |
Well the problem with that is the IS-2 already has maximum penetration, the Tiger and Panther just have heavy armour.
And before you say anything, the IS-2 had heavier armour and higher gun damage than the Tiger and Panther do. In a 1v1 frontal slug-fest, it's up to the RNG God's to decide the winner.
not true, the tiger fires much much faster. there alone allows the tiger to do a much higer and consistent dps.
in fact the is2 is more dependent on rng because each deflected shot is much more crucial. this can be seen in the 2nd fight where the tiger destroys an is2 head on with a good amt of hp left. |
Why dont you go to tier 4 then mate? soviet industry is equipped with awesome AI tanks so complement them with AT tanks.
i could, that means a delayed kv2.
Their are still maxims snipers and penals for ai purposes
im not sure how to sustain reinforcements once the passive kicks in, especially with penals and maxims who are likely to take huge casualties for every casualty they do.
I agree this will dramatically change how soviet industry plays, and I suspect this will move it in the team game realm. That is not necessarily a bad thing, but if you are hoping to keep it as a strat to fast rush to tanks by skipping inf, I suspect it will no longer be able to deliver.
im more concerned about the infantry that were invested early, since they will be generally unsustainable once the passive kicks in. |
Thats what was the problem. the t-34 or t-70 appeared before any decent counter appeared. on maps where the pak is nearly useless like the road to karkov this doctrine was nearly an instant win.
true, but this is kinda maddening.
t34 is effective now because they came so early and there wasnt really an effective counter, not because they were good at what they did. they are still the most micro intensive tank because of their filmsy armour and kinda worthless main gun.
now they are pushed back the timing where they are the most useless, which is on par with their counters paks/stugs/p4. combine that with the scatter nerf, they are situational against infantry, requires large amount of support before they can hit anything and they still cannot deal with any armour when stugs and panzer4 outgun/outarmour them.
so relic is pretty much forcing a more infantry based early game for soviets industry, yet are not doing anything to mitigate the incapabilities for industry to support a sizeable infantry force.
i may be only theory crafting, but i see industry tactics to be unsustainable once the patch kicks in. |
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