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i still think ram should just do crew shock for about 5-8 seconds, both tanks are out of action in that duration, then both will recover at back to their previous state. that means no engine damages, gun damages, nothing and be placed into vet1 ability.
it should be used to buy time for clunky soviet AT units to get into position to fire, not as a suicidal unit.
then you buff t34 to a proper medium tank, not a bigger t70 as it is right now. that means penetration of a 110 so that they can have 100% chance go penetrate panthers at the rear. front armour of 140, and increase its cost to be more in line with the p4. 300mp/95 fuel.
soviet tanks need better vet 1 abilities imo, especially the is2. smoke dischargers for the is2 at vet1 please.
what i want to do is to make tank combat more about flanking and achieving rear armour shots, making medium tanks more relevant in late games as effective guards against flanks and being flankers themselves. and the only way to do so is that medium tanks must be capable of independent operations.
2nd thing i like to point out is the amount of damage heavy tanks and heavy assault guns do. they output way too much damage in a single shell and have to be scaled down to make way for medium tanks to survive in the late game.
240/320 are too much damaged being dished out and makes them so much more superior to medium tanks. imo, the highest damage should be 160, so medium tanks have a good chance of getting away instead of being wasted in 2-3 shots. then apply 25% damage modifiers on is2/tigers/isu/elefants to be more effective against each other. |
Back to the Panther: I would really like to see some changes that reward the skilled use of a Panther and punish the player that rushes it in. With this I mean increased range, slightly better frontal protection in exchange for a slight HP nerf and certain penetrations to its sides and rear from any AT weapon, or at least something in that direction.
Imo the Panther should be something you keep in the distance and as soon as it gets close to the enemy, you should be in trouble keeping it alive.
the solution is simple, but difficult to implement. REAL Infantry AT. lets go back to vcoh, panthers werent such an issue there because 1: Ranger bazookas rape panthers rear armour. 2: paras with RRs are superb AT. 3: Panthers are piss poor against infantry. A trait about infantry AT is that they do not require setup to shoot and can react to quick movement such as tanks, resulting in them being superb in close ranges, best used to support AT guns.
yet here in coh2, we only have AT guns as the closest thing soviet has as infantry AT, or PTRS that dont even have a good 100% chance to penetrate rear armour. and AT nades at best a snare tool, cannot be counted on to do consistent dps.
so as panthers charges in, all it has to do is wade thru the initial AT fire, which it can count on its heavy armor to negate a good amount of the damage, easily getting into the flanks and ravaging soviet lines. because there is nothing that can protect flanks at close ranges. AT guns are too clunky and have to be constantly resetup, su85 can be circle strafed, ptrs takes years to down a panther.
the nature of soviet AT is that they are all long ranged snipers, so the best tactic to use them would be in staggered formation. in order to cover each other from armoured rush. so now, in order to counter panthers, or actually german armour mobility, every piece of AT equipment must be supported by another. if not, they are very easily circled and destroyed. |
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i dont think every infantry in game should get a vehicle snaring ability.
assault grenadiers are out done in every way by pgrens which is non doctrinal and I think they are a needless addition to the german army.
they come too early so they cannot be too powerful, making them fairly useless late game due to lack of scaling. make them come 1cp later and no one will bother about them because pzgrens are already hitting the field. buff them and they will screw early game balance against conscripts. make them cheaper and they are still a bad investment since they cannot protect themselves from vehicles.
so yea, where do they actually fit? |
StuGs make a short work of T34 just as effective as SU-85 deal with P4s.
When you start seeing KV tanks, unless its KV-2, StuG is all you want if you're in T3.
While its not best idea, its definitely better to have StuGs against IS-2 then P4s that will simply loose without putting a fight, while StuGs can damage and at vet1 control IS-2.
You really underestimate StuGs. You just need to babysit them more, just like you have to with Su-85.
this link0 guy is good, he can say whatever the fuck he wants tho. i wouldn't be all that surprised if he said he can kill tiger aces with just conscripts. /sarcasm
but honestly he is good.
for mere mortals like us, it depends on who you fight with i guess, if he cannot keep up with the t34 micro, stug will end the game. if he can, he might very well destroy your stug with circle strafe. |
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I'm fine with it though, though a small cost decrease would be nice, it is after all, asymmetrical to the tiger and it has very clear counters such as a panthers and tigers |
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i still think t34 need to be able to put a good dent against heavy armour when hitting their rear. this needs to be implemented. same with the is2.
rear armour should never be immune to any form of tank fire at all. |
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I dunno,sometimes it takes 5-6 shots to kill a man too. |
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apart from the tanks, ISU and brumbar, all those used to be in vcoh, there's nothing to fix. THEY ALL 1 SHOT SQUADS. either you get out of the way, especially artillery and bombing runs from commander's ability or constantly move and let the opponent guess and miss their artillery strikes.
as far as tanks are concerned, AOE is the main thing that kills infantry, no longer accuracy of the gun like it was back in vcoh. so its difficult to make things consistent. sometimes it takes 6-7 shots to kill a model, sometimes a single shot wipes the entire squad. it is very rng based.
so to fix this,
1) either cap the maximum damage so squads dont get wiped in 1 shot
2) or make tanks shoot with less scatter(more accurate), slightly reduce AOE(so they dont always hit multiple models) but make AOE weak but does definite damage.
so means any model taking the AOE right in the face however, does full damage, those that get caught in the outer rings of the AOE takes 20damage and takes about a couple shots before there's a chance for a squad wipe. |
No, actually there are calculated hits. It's around 5% depending on the gun and range. And of course, the AOE will probably kill a few others.
yes I know, but it isnt too far off to say that they arent calculated. I wouldnt put my chances on 5%. its quite obvious really, AT tanks have low AOE, AI tanks have huge AOE to make up for their misses, so that the AOE gets infantry.
in effect its all missed shots. which makes things difficult to make them consistent.
ytd I had a game, an ISU is firing at a mg42 for 6-7 shots before killing a man. in another instance, a blob of pgren comes strolling over, a single shot took 4 models away, 1 from 4 different squads. in another case, a gren squad capping, a single shell wiped the squad off the earth.
then i watched my mate's t34, all bark and no bite, stopped moving yet taking forever to kill a stationary mg42. it was probably about 4-5 shots before a model was killed off and forced a retreat. I think it was the hull mg that took it out instead.
im all for vcoh consistency, where i can count on sherman/p4 tanks as fire platforms to pick off infantry. |
Sounds like you are trying hard to justify a losing argument. No one agrees. I don't like to use this ever, but it sounds more like a l2p issue.
if thats the case then so be it, im sure im not the only 1 with this kind of experience though.
however, i think, when shocks nerfs are implemented, the skillbase of people go up a little, then hmmmm.
there's that then, i wont come back this thread to argue anymore. |
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