Any AP Rounds ability that cost munitions should always penetrate against all Tanks(USF AT Gun for example). It feels silly that you pay 30 munitions or so and the shots bounce.
So 30 mu and you should counter the KT? if paying 30mu and bouncing is painful imagime paying hundreds of fuel and not bouncing!
+50% pen is a sizable buff as it is. |
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Its better because the infantry is more spread out, meaning its more consistant (instead of needing a direct hit, and a wipe or deal with a complete miss) |
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To quickly summarize "wah wah wah, stats are hard, what is balance?" |
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What about slashing the mp cost of arty in favour of making the barrage cost muni? 50 fuel seems alot for something that spends half its time sitting doing nothing anf the rest praying to RNG and then getting taken out by 2/3 clicks |
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I wouldnt mind seeing the demo require an engie squad to detonate, but thats it, making it more predictable makes it more counterable and there is no reason you shouldnt be able to punish poor play with it. I think everyome agrees the cheese behind it is cap point cheese, there is an ability specifically for that and it doesnt work half as well meaning there is something wrong |
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I think all it needs is a vet rework. Like give siege mode a 3 round barrage with like arty range at vet 1 or something, maybe some deflection crits when in siege mode too? |
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Im sure if cons didnt suck at everything they do people WOULD mix them in. Literally the history of the soviet in this game is "abuse this because my mainline is so bad if i dont i have no chance at victory" |
I have no idea why suddenly everyone thinks that Penals "shouldn't be punished" by circle-pushing by light and mediums.
Do sturm pioneers have a snare option, while possesing an AT weapon, or even Pz grens with shrecks, a dedicated tank hunters squads? You want a snare, get a mainline infantry like everyone else (sorry brits  )
Why the hell everyone thinks that penals should be able to repel vehicle rush? Are sturm pioneers should be able to do the same? No. Both of those units have soft AV option to keep vehicles from harrasing them without any consequences. But if you want to really punish vehicles, get a fucking at gun or in case of soviet T1 play, field an ealier SU 76 or t70. T1 in soviets was always about early infantry domination and now, with the PTRS upgrades you are able to hold your own against lights in T1, which would be fair IF those PTRS package was what it supposed to be: a soft AT counter, without actually being spammable upgrade that:
1. locks down light vehicle play for wehr (once enemy has 3+ squads of those (oh and im sure he will get them)
2.makes infantry skirmishes trobulesome as well since Penals do not lose their AI potency
3.makes any vehicle sprearhead very risky since resilent, 6 man squads with rambo like demo charges will be waiting to bum-rush any advancing german tank who would like to finish off retreating soviet vehicles.
I've said this in the Winter patch preview and I'll say it again. you cant, as Soviet in T1 have elite, superior infantry in the opening, faster tanks avaliability AND hard AT. its like having a cookie and eating it at the same time.
The ptrs =/= the shrek, thats why. The shrek can pop a shot in an instant and deal 120 damage, that alone deters pushing a shrek. Due to the aim time of the ptrs and the lower damage output PER SHOT they are susceptible to pushing more than any other AT. I preferred the 3 AT rifle package @90mu direction as it was a different way to deliver the ~the same performance as other similar AT investments, but slowly chipping vs ripping out chunks of health and greatly reducing the AI (the package put them on par with unupgraded grens, which given the price and slow delivery of AT damage was imo acceptable. Upgunned grens beat them handily) |
nobody are saying they are.
PTRS package is much cheaper, and yes, they are not problem for medium and heavy vehicles. The real offender are AT satchels. In big, multiple fronts engagements it requires a godly amount attention to your vehicles, since a single successfull AT satchel is basicly a death sentence for any vehicle up to Pz4 included.
I've played numerous times against the competent soviet players and every single time he tired to fish for satchel with one of his penal squads. and since even wehr struggles to contain those even with MG 42s and infantry play, countering those with lights and mediums is extremely frustrating.
The flowchart looks like that:
Is it a light/medium vehicle? if it is close try to satchel charge it for basicly an insta-kill (or very close to it). If you see enemy is microing them away go to cover for few seconds, pepper them with PTRS. Once the vehicle stopped moving, try to close in again to blow it up since opponents attention is probably elsewhere. Continue ad nauseum. the cost of failed attempts is usually 1-2 penal models, since 222, pz4, flaktrack and ostwind cant target for shit while being forced to relocate. To add insult to the injury, PTRS Penals can easily win gren and pzgren engagements, while still posing a significant threat to armour. Don't even tell me about every single poor vehicle that eat a mine on a frontline, it is a basicly a death sentence if penals are around.
Of course now im gonne hear the "git gud" argument since I apparently don't micro my vehicles enough. I am just saying that if you have to look every 5 seconds at your light or medium vehicle while fighting infantry which is not dedicated AT squad, there is something wrong about it. Hell, even pz grens with shrecks are more predictable, since their shreck volly at least will be shown on the vehicle tooltip/hp while you are dealing with something on the other side of the map, so you know what the hell is going on. with Penals its full hp vehicle firing at infantry, the next second its dead or on 1/5 hp with damaged engine, which in most cases means its probably dead in a moment.
Once again. You want your AT satchel shenanigans, fine you can have it, but for gods sake, make PTRS penals on par with shreck PZ grens in terms anti-infantry, so you can succesfully protect your vehicles with infantry play.
I think that the AT aspect of the satchel could certainly afford to be tied to the AT package in the HQ to help with the speed tech+AI+AT that the new penals bring to the table, but i do disagree with your assesment of the penals so easily countering lights/mediums. While certainly strong, they have a nasty aim time (the ptrs), which is why the AT satchel is so important, else you could just circle/push the tits off them without having any fear at all because burst damage is nonexistant, i think the problem is that the axis vehcles AI is too low. Like, i would like to see what the 222 would be like if the upgrade was reintroduced but have the mg34 hitting like a t34 hull gun to provide mobile oomph that the ost so desperately need. |
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I really dont get the allusion that ptrs = shreks. One is burst damage and the other is effectively DOT as far as AT weapons go. |
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