I'd be willing to accept smoke rounds as the start, if to compensate for the fact the ISG is terrible versus garrisons and actually harming the structure. If they can be smoked off, then the ISG can at least help OKW's massive issue with garrisons and defensive positions when using the Battlegroup HQ.
The Battlegroup HQ, as it stands, needs considerable help as an actual tier structure rather than mainly being a beefier Forward Assembly with healing.
And in general its worse against anything not emplacements and mortars can also damage vehicles, the ISG just as a tad easier time hitting them due to its arc, but it's a very minor thing as it has much worse AOE.
ISG is terrible versus garrisons, but Flamennades are perfectly fine, for example. Wuhrframmen is ubereffective against garrisons - just crushing buildings with troops inside. So, what problems may you have with them?
Idea of "smoking off" garrisons is a bit wierd, never saw anyone, who would smoke it, instead of attacking and punching units out of there. Just throw there 1-2 flammennades and it will be 100% clear, no need to smoke it or do something more, seriously.
Battlegroup HQ is also fine, if you will look at todays faction design. You can get it pretty fast, cos it costs not so many. With that you getting 5th unit in T0 (is there any other faction, which has so many units in starting tier?), you getting all kinds of units, all kinds of counters for everything - from infantry (HMG, infantry, FlaK HT(may sound like a joke, but still)) to tanks (Puphen, SPioAT, Volksfausts). Even without tiers OKW has more, than any other faction, with T1 they also getting very effective indirect also. Personally, I see no reasons to build T2 for myself, cos light vehicles suck, Wuhrframmen costs too much and I'd prefer to save my fuel for T3 and a bit early comming vehicle core of OKW - Pz4s and Panthers. But, that's my own build for games.
In any case - Battlegroup HQ is fine, with that OKW very fast gets everything they need. Getting higher tiers only opens for you tanks. Yet I still think, that if we need to pay for medics additional 100MP - why not to let FRP on BGHQ cost 100 MP less? It all just costs too much...
And in general, it's not worse than usual non-doc mortar. Mediocre accuracy, fine damage, never saw, that mortars can damage medium vehicles like LeIG or packhowie and it's AoE is also fine. It's not so big, as mortars, but... mortars has lesser range, lesser penetration. It is an exchange - range and power to areal damage. Balancing. For non-doc and early coming field howitzer (pack howie comes later, costs more and less mobile, and for that - more effective, so uncompareable) LeIG does it's job veeeeery well. It counters enemy mortar teams, enemy HMG teams, able to snipe from fog opponent's vehicles. Has problems with garrisons, but as I said - flamenades, wuhrframmens, sneaky encircling tactics - all of that can be used effectively against them, so use it. And no need to make OKW's gameplay easier, it already became so with getting non-doc HMG. Save some work for OKW players and some uniqness of that faction. That new patch almost ruined it already. Add smoke and it will be not 70% copy of Ostheer, but all 80%. Is that, what we want in faction designing? Definitely no! |
All 3 ideas seem good to me.
You are missing the point entirely. 'asymmetrical balance' doesn't mean some factions need to be missing a key capability. Look at sov vs OH, or US vs Wehr in CoH1. Both are considered the most balanced and interesting matchups. Both factions are similar in terms of available units, yet there is sufficient difference in tech structure, unit abilities, relative strengths to keep things interesting.
Hah, that's what I usualy write, when suggesting to redesign Maxim HMG into typical defensive MG, like MG-42. But then I getting a lot of answers, some part of them is about "it is assymetrical balance, it is design feature, stop suggesting BS". Cute to see, that absolutely same in logic suggestion, but for another faction, people taking soo kindly...
If "suckeable by design" Maxim is design and assymetrical balance feature - so absence of OKW smoke is. I wouldn't say, that OKW suffers too much without smoke - keep in mind, that for that OKW getting a lot of interesting things, which are unavailable for all other factions, for example - IR Eye of Sauron. And LeIG itself is not mortar, it has way bigger range of fire, it can damage light and medium vehicles. It provides all nessecary support. OKW may deal with HMGs without smoke - using those LeIGs, early coming Wuhrframmens, trying flnaking attacks, cos even if you will fail - forward retreat point will save a lot of time for you for to make next try...
Again - OKW have everything they need for to effectively deal with HMGs. Adding more seems a bit unreasonable. LeIG is good enough even right now, I use it very often, it helps a lot even in auto-fire mode. And of course, I have problems with HMGs, when I play as OKW, but... that's part of factions design. Such as USSR will have problems with early light vehicles attacks, if they took T1 instead of T2. |
Sometimes waiting another 1-2 minutes is not an option if you need a tank ASAP. Similarly, waiting for Thorough Salvage close to the frontline is usually not an option.
Don't use it then, if it's not an option. I still don't understand, why it should be easier for OKW? I see absolutely no reason, salvaging is already good ability itself. It should have at least some limits.
And in any case - T-34s example is bad. Units and abilities are different. What you suggest would be equial to adding to howitzers additional barrage ability, which has lesser salvos in barrage, but reloads faster. Such ability would make howitzers much more powerful, cos it would protect from miss-barages and would unreasonably increase howitzer's effectiveness.
Hope you will understand my example, specially through my shitty english |
and it's in general very effective. I don't know, why people don't like it so much.
Maybe, just maybe, its because you are somewhere between rank #1000-#3000 After spending 2000hours into the game?
You want to say, that me - less skilled player - learnt how to use LeIG properly, but highlevel ner... players don't know how to do it? Such a compliment, thanks |
1. I don't know. LeIG is enough powerful, I think. It has bigger than usual mortars range of fire, bigger than pack howie range of autofire (that's actually good, less microcontrol head ache), and it's in general very effective. I don't know, why people don't like it so much. LeIG is very much able to deal with mortars, HMG teams, emplacements... everything you don't like. Even Katyushas! (did it few times, was cool to look at opponent's butthurt ).
And T1 of OKW is fitted normaly. LeIG, non-doc Eye of Sauron and Flak HT - questionable unit, but still can be useful. Maybe should be cheaper. For example, I never build T2 - prefer to save that fuel for T3 and get normal vehicles, instead of shitty lights. In any case - LeIG is fine, T1 is fine. I would maybe make T1 reatreat point cost lesser to 200 MP, cos... paying 300 and then 100 more for medics - it all causes MP starvation, which is bad.
2. Cutoff harassment... You know, allies have not so much options for to do it. It's most easier for OKW to cutoff harass with fast Kubels, which can cap by default. So, it's not really problem for OKW at all...
3. Well, I would like to see that crazy, which will buy shitty T-34-76 and spend worthy fuel on that useless tincan, instead of w8 1-2 mins and getting normal and solid 85.
I said - I don't like, that salvaging can be used at team weapons, it looks a bit unreasonable for me, and it makes destryoing enemy weapons (which costs a lot of MP) not only easier, but also profitable for OKW. And you suggesting to make it easier for to destroy weapons with that ability, when you taking improved one with doctrine. I don't think, that it should be any easier for OKW, so that's why I say no to such improvement.
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14,88. It's between 1 and 100, right? |
1. Smoke rounds for LeIG. I don't think, that it is good idea. Each faction has absence of something in their arsenal, it's part of factions design. For Ostheer it's absence of reliable infantry, for USSR - absence of non-doc weapons for infantry. For OKW it is absence of smoke, and early also was absence of non-doc HMG. Anyway - adding smoke to OKW will be pretty bad idea, if we want to save factions design uniqe, more or less. OKW is already in few steps from turning into "Ostheer 2.0".
2. It is also strange idea. Cutoffs can be part of strategy of cutting forward OKW truckbases. And they MUST be effective, since OKW is ONLY faction, which gameplay and tiering progress based on forward basetrucks. Those basetrucks providing great benefits to OKW - it should be compensated with something. Absence of tools, which protecting you from cutoffs can be used as that compensation. So - no posts.
3. I don't like, that OKW salvaging can be used at team weapons. While I need to have ATG or Tank for to destroy enenmy/mine team weapons and prevent their stealing - OKW may just push the button and not only prevent it, but also get resourse bonus for that. It was more or less understandable, when OKW had resourse income penaltiy (would be nice to have it back), but now... It also looks cool, that OKW can salvage guns, while soviet doctrinal salvaging works only on cracked vehicles, and also costs 75 or 100 ammo for to equip each of your engineers with that. So, no improve for salvaging, please.
As result - everything is fine with OKW now, no need to change anything more. OKW is already lost almost all it's uniqness, no need to ruin it more with such changes. |
They have tommierifles because of... faction design. Same it was in vCoH.
Wouldn't say, that it's so hard to counter them. MG-42, mortars, different OKW infantry... Of course, they are powerful, but not immortal.
And... I wouldn't say, that tommierifles are most powerful starting unit in game. OKW Sturmpios are powerful too. Effective at almost all ranges, shot at move without penalty... |
Casulties of WW1: about 11.000.000 (11-15 mio estimated, without further casualties)
Casulties of WW2: about 60.000.000 (60-90 mio estimated, without further casualties)
Considering numbers, WW2 was more of a slaughter war. WW1 is still considered by historians that altered the lifes of many countries to come.
There is indeed risk involved taking topics which have not been fully explored to gameify real-life stories and events to fit the mold of intended game-play of a video-game. One never thought WW1 would be an interesting topic for a FPS, yet a popular company managed to adapt it, albeit a bit artistically, whilst being rather fun. WW1 also had quite a few war changing mechanics, e.g. the introduction of the Lincolnshire boiling water on wheels tank.
And it seems to pay off for that company, considering the pre-ordering numbers being rather high and other companies intending to explore the WW1 theme.
Some offtopic, sorry.
Er... Slaughter war... I meant not by casulties, but by... maybe "style" of war itself. Don't know, how to explain it better. That was some kind of "transitory" type of war - in-between of old "wall-to-wall" war (last of them was murican civil) and modern war.
My point about it was, that CoH series strategies are mostly about "unit (micro)control & saving" in game. But... WWI wasn't that war, where sides of conflict cared about losses too much. We could say same about WWII, but... it's more "modern", so - saving manpower was actually important. + in WWI there wasn't such big number of combat vehicles, different type weapons... It will be pretty "poor" strategy, if they will do it, I suppouse. But, that's my sight on it... maybe Im wrong.
P.S. Battlefield 1 hype is not that understandable for me... It will be just another "battlefield 3" in other decorations. Or maybe "Battlefront" in WWI, which is worse. Whoever expects it - it won't be great, I can say it right now for sure. Don't pay to EA and their enslaved DICE anymore, they don't deserve it.
P.P.S. If CoH 3 will be about WWI - Im 100% sure, that they will add there some "gas mechanics", cos in WWI different chems and gases used pretty often in combats. It will be innovation, like Cold Tech in CoH 2. And my forsight - people will whine, that "it makes game more difficult, for no reason, remove it pls, we are reatards!", like they did with Cold Tech... |
It would be better to start all over again with coh3, maybe they are already doing that , but what new things can you do with coh3. I mean you cant pull out a whole new big army like the soviets in coh2....
I think they took from WW2 theme everything they could. Really hard to imagine, that they will make something new about that.
WWI strategy is most predictable way of making CoH 3 in that case. But if it will be "WWI strategy, based on unit microcontrol and saving" - it will be wierd WWI was a slaughter war. So... either change of topic, which risks, or... the end of series. |