When I asked Relic about DOW3 when he streamed with me he declined to comment and laughed so.. I guess that's it
Sega didn't by Relic for CoH, I can tell you that much. |
All I saw was the ability being used when you had decided to create a little sim city. Placing 3 trucks and 3 ISG's in a tight area. The placement of the Schwer was particularly weird because it should have gone up north to defend the fuel, but for some reason you decided to build it very close to an already set up truck. He also triggered AS during a battle which was intelligent so that you would have a higher micro requirement. You did forget to mention that you had already won the game by the time he got to it, one player dropped, and he never had the resources for upgrades all game as a result of it storing up for it so his troops could not hope to beat your men as the game dragged on. On top of that it came so late, that as I pointed out before, you had already built units from your tech structures and their loss was annoying but not exactly game breaking. Good ability yes, game deciding just for being called no.
Another discussion, but did not see you complaining about how OP the ISG was in the game which basically allowed your team to sit comfortably in mid and never move. The allies had no real counters to them because they don't unlock any real counters.
So are you just going to ignore that it does 6000 damage over an insanely large area or what. I didn't post the replay so you could complain about the LeiG. But I agree it should cost more.
Like this isn't again, a case of "Lets judge if this is OP or not", this is a case of the ability being bugged/broken. |
So Relic quite did literally just copy paste the ability from Urban Assault Doctrine.
Relic: This doctrine would be overpowered and broken if we released it
*12 months later*
Relic Manager: So Charles have you finished that doctrine we asked you to work on?
Relic Charles: Uhhhhhhhhhhhhh *copy pastes Urban Defense* yeah...yeah it's done!
Relic Manager: Good Work Charles
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I find it as a fair trade of for securing your cut off/fuel points by Schwerer.
I mean, what is disadvantage of making frontline Schwerer which keeps at bay almost everything with no micro, no attention, while you push your enemy's fuel?
It provides damn unfair advantage through mid-early-late game so I see nothing wrong with erase button for, holy crap, 325 ammo.
There's nothing unfair about the Schwer at all, I mean christ were 1.5 years out from WFA release and you still can't handle it? |
Ah, It appears the problem may be that the ability has 2 extra accurate tactical bomber planes.....both of which are marked on the map has HE111's? I don't really know whats going on with this ability because it's code is a mess and Iv been testing it and it's been giving me 3 inaccurate bombers and 2 accurate ones in game.
Code:
| | | | | | | aircraft_squad_name: "tactical_bombers";
| | | | | | | attack_info: {
| | | | | | | | attack_sway_frequency: 1f;
| | | | | | | | attack_sway_width: 1f;
| | | | | | | | attacks_per_aircraft: 1;
| | | | | | | | delay_between_attack: 1f;
| | | | | | | | initial_attack_delay: 0f;
| | | | | | | | target_attack_distance: 100f;
| | | | | | | | target_attack_time_sec: 2.125f;
| | | | | | | | target_lead_in_distance: 40f;
| | | | | | | | target_lead_out_distance: 40f;
| | | | | | | };
| | | | | | | loiter_info: {
| | | | | | | | 0x200C8104: 0f;
| | | | | | | | 0x5543314C: true;
| | | | | | | | 0x6651A0F5: false;
| | | | | | | | 0xB01F66E7: 0f;
| | | | | | | | follow_target: false;
| | | | | | | | loiter_area_radius: 50f;
| | | | | | | | loiter_time_sec: 0f;
| | | | | | | };
| | | | | | | number_aircraft: 3;
| | | | | | | random_direction: false;
| | | | | | | search_attack_target: false;
| | | | | | | source_offset_x: 1f;
| | | | | | | source_offset_y: 1f;
| | | | | | | source_offset_z: 1f;
| | | | | | | target_info: {
| | | | | | | | $REF: "type_ability_target_type\is_position.lua";
| | | | | | | };
| | | | | | | time_range_between_planes_maximum: 1f;
| | | | | | | time_range_between_planes_minimum: 1f;
| | | | | | | use_long_path: false;
| | | | | | | | | aircraft_squad_name: "tactical_bombers_accurate";
| | | | | | | | | attack_info: {
| | | | | | | | | | attack_sway_frequency: 1f;
| | | | | | | | | | attack_sway_width: 1f;
| | | | | | | | | | attacks_per_aircraft: 1;
| | | | | | | | | | delay_between_attack: 1f;
| | | | | | | | | | initial_attack_delay: 0f;
| | | | | | | | | | target_attack_distance: 100f;
| | | | | | | | | | target_attack_time_sec: 2.125f;
| | | | | | | | | | target_lead_in_distance: 40f;
| | | | | | | | | | target_lead_out_distance: 40f;
| | | | | | | | | };
| | | | | | | | | loiter_info: {
| | | | | | | | | | 0x200C8104: 0f;
| | | | | | | | | | 0x5543314C: true;
| | | | | | | | | | 0x6651A0F5: false;
| | | | | | | | | | 0xB01F66E7: 0f;
| | | | | | | | | | follow_target: false;
| | | | | | | | | | loiter_area_radius: 50f;
| | | | | | | | | | loiter_time_sec: 0f;
| | | | | | | | | };
| | | | | | | | | number_aircraft: 2;
| | | | | | | | | random_direction: false;
| | | | | | | | | search_attack_target: false;
| | | | | | | | | source_offset_x: 2f;
| | | | | | | | | source_offset_y: 2f;
| | | | | | | | | source_offset_z: 2f;
| | | | | | | | | target_info: {
| | | | | | | | | | $REF: "type_ability_target_type\is_position.lua";
| | | | | | | | | };
| | | | | | | | | time_range_between_planes_maximum: 1f;
| | | | | | | | | time_range_between_planes_minimum: 1f;
| | | | | | | | | use_long_path: false;
So that's 20 bombs from 5 bombers at 300 damage per bomb so 6000 damage. With 2 of the bombers accurately dropping all their bombs in a line.
So you get basically 2 perfect IL-2 bomb strikes accuracy wise on top of 3 saturation bomb drops, christ what was Relic thinking  |
Stuka dive bomb can kill multiple units easily and is pretty cheap considering there is 0 smoke / mini map marker and hits pretty quickly. Sure this one can do a lot of damage but its also really easy for it to do very little damage to units and vehicles, since you have such a longer time to remove stuff from the area.
The problem is that it just outclasses literally all other anti-emplacement artillery in the game. USF Mech Artillery takes 2 uses to kill 1 truck, that's 360 munitions. Time on Target takes 2, that's 360 munitions again. USF major artillery takes like 4 so that's 480. Stuka Bombing Strike can't even kill 1 Emplacement in 1 hit.
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Most of those call-ins are extremely expensive and do nothing near what a actual on-map unit would do.
Most soviet doctrines provide off-map as well, but they still use the katyusha.
Uh, Mech Artillery will almost kill an OKW HQ. Time on Target will do the same thing. On map artillery cannot do that much damage in nearly that amount of time. After testing it to take an OKW BG HQ down to 25% health like Mech did it took 3 Priest barrages on Average.
And why would hang-time be any different then the delay of hearing the off-map.
Katuysha - You hear katyusha you start moving
Major Arty - You hear artillery firing you start moving
Because the Katyusha has a set range and cannot shoot at anywere on the map? I mean it wouldn't be all that problematic, it would just make no consistent sense.
The reason other artillery has flares is because they can wipe your entire army in the blink of an eye. Majors artillery isn't even as strong as a single priest barrage.
All Artillery that lacks concrete warning or defined range should have flares. You can argue for buffing major artillery (I would like to see it buffed as well). But removing flares? Nah.
Just increase the amount of shells it fires. |
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A doctrinal unit is not an excuse to not have proper tools within their non-doctrinal units. How would you feel if OKW's incindiary grenades were locked in a doctrine? You'd still be complaining about their anti-garrison ability.
Except multiple USF doctrines have call in artillery that can take the place of bombardment artillery. And USF will be getting more doctrines with even more call in's and a new indirect unit. OKW needed Incen nades because OKW lacked an sort of garrison counter early on in the game, and OKW doctrines didn't give any real alternative.
Contrary to popular belief I do actually play USF and so far Iv not had really any issues with lack of artillery. Especially now that the Pack Howi is quite accurate.
And Neither stuka, panzerwherfer, or katyusha drop flares where they are about to fire. And all those can wipe entire armies if aimed correctly. I don't see how the major's artillery would be any more powereful then a barrage from one of them?
Because those all have a travel/hang time on the shells and you can reasonable predict were they will land. Your also forced to use them based on range meaning that you can tell what will be hit based on were the thing is shooting from.
By your logic why would any artillery have flares? |
Yea, its perfectly valid to compare it this way, because every single bomb lands on the area of JT size.
Actually because the way the bombs land (in a box not a line) and with their higher AoE they do more damage than IL-2 bombs do.
Tac Bombs:
| | | can_harm_shooter: false;
| | | damage: {
| | | | far: 0.05f;
| | | | mid: 0.35f;
| | | | near: 1f;
| | | };
IL-2 Bombs:
| | | can_harm_shooter: false;
| | | damage: {
| | | | far: 0.05f;
| | | | mid: 0.15f;
| | | | near: 1f;
| | | };
|