Rifle flame/Zook spam and E8 blob of death, that wasn't hard now was it. Good thing Wehr call ins got nerfed but Easy 8's and 85's are untouched 
Easy 8's were badly nerfed several patches ago, and not all that great now. The AI was nerfed and it doesn't have the HE option like a regular Sherman (IIRC - been awhile since I used them). |
+1 to van voort's reply with the following:
Commanders:
There are only a few commanders good in both 1v1 and 4v4 (Guard Motor, Shock Rifle, CAS, Mechanized Assault, Airborne). I normally have different loadouts for each mode. For example, my favorite OST commander is Mobile Defense (Osttruppen, panzer technician, command P4, Puma) but I don't use it in 4v4's. The commanders that are good in all modes are generally the ones that people complain about the most as being OP.
4v4 often dominated by heavies in late game, 1v1 rarely sees more than 1 heavy per side, and some heavies not often built. For example, I've not seen an Elefant in a 1v1 (though not a lot of games as soviet), and rarely see more than 1 IS2. A heavy is 1/4 of your pop cap in a single point, and the support it usually needs takes it to half of your total.
Impact Units:
The USF lieutenant sucks to deal with as OKW in 1v1, as does the followup M20. In 4v4, they're nowhere near as big of a deal. In 4v4, there is less of a window for impact units until heavies arrive.
Teamwork:
One of the most fun games I ever played was with Beemer in a 2v2 where we had several battles that probably turned out much better than they should have because we played as a team (him with Su76's and SU85's, me with penals, guards [before the last patch, when they were pretty awful], and AT guns). It's a lot of fun when everyone plays together. On the other hand, playing in a 4v4 when one of the players decides to go off and do their own thing results in an hour-long train wreck. Probably everyone who is reading this has experienced it if they play a 4v4 with randoms. ie - the player who goes to the top left VP on Steppes and builds a lot of defenses, while the rest of their team continuously loses a 3v4. Then the other team flanks those awesome defenses by coming in between them and their base and they wipe literally every single unit on retreat.
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They reverted some of the leaked StuG buffs though. A tank destroyer at 50 range is still shit.
You mean like the M10? |
remove okw
Or just eliminate the resource penalty, vet 4 and 5, low cost tech with free buildings, and bring price/performance for units in line with other factions. With the current design, OKW will always badly under-perform (this patch 1v1) or over-perform (last patch 4v4). |
Yeah it’s tough out there right now. Allow me to apologize in advance, this is probably the quickest I've pumped out a review. I hope it hasn't compromised readability. Um, anyway!! Your main issues that I could see stemmed from two areas which are all intertwined: build, and commander.
Please don’t take this a personal criticism of character, but I didn’t get the feeling you were too comfortable with having to adapt. You stuck to a very rigid build order which was not really very well complimented with your commander, and thusly were left with a very lopsided army composition which did not perform very well, especially as the T34 hit the field. If that was a T70 or even an AAHT that game is over a lot quicker, ‘cos you were left unprepared.
Be sure to observe base splats and try and watch multiple replays of your own, (or play more Soviets) paying attention to your opponents army composition and the clock. Because of the very “flow charty” design of the Soviets, you’ll start to build a better feel of what to expect and when. This experience will allow you to tailor your army to counter it, play way more efficiently and purposefully and give you confidence. For instance, a shrek with your first 90 munitions doesn’t do you any good against T2. Once you see T3, then it’s time to panic, grab a pupchen and some shreks. You did this, but not at the correct time, making it inefficient. Instead, since you were dueling scripts and potentially shock troops, don’t hesitate to grab those G43’s or grenades as your first investments.
Likewise, your opponent also did not seem too keen to adapt either, riding shock rifle like secretariat. A well micro’d Luchs can really punish these builds as well as MG34’s and even to a degree Falls and Obers, but again you were much too rigid, the JP4, does become a good unit to have a little before the Is2’s are on the field, but I don’t personally feel like you should be trying to hold on to enough to survive and then hope to take them out when they hit the field, I would rather try to control the tempo of the game earlier, that’s just me though.
Mainly it comes down to having the right tools at your disposal, and this was evident in the dying embers of the game, and your decision to get the Schwerer. This is a choice that does you no good at this point, and you nearly lost the truck in what I’ll attribute to a mistake with your rally points up at the front lines. By now you know another Is2 or even flame tank will hit the field, it may be time to consider the Jagdtiger. I believe it could have bailed you out here, but the choice of the Schwerer, plus a float of 500+mp and replacing of Volks with Fusiliers, it really did not do you any favours at this stage of the game, you were in limbo with your army and frankly, needed a different unit composition to fight shock rifle late game: mines, pupchens, panther/jpiv/jagdtiger and I feel that sort of inexperience really showed through and hurt you tremendously during the game.
Allow me to go back to examine the early game for a moment. When you’re considering using a Kubelwagon, or any unit for that matter, you have to also tailor your tactics to get the most efficiency out of them. This issue is systemic at each stage. In this case, your offense needs to flow through your sturmpios. They need to be the center piece of your combat ambitions, using the kubel to suppress the squad(s) and then flank with the pios, classic fire and maneuver. Instead use a Volks squad to go cap podunkville out in the middle of nowhere, especially on a map like Eindhoven, since harassing squads are effectively not part of your army requiring a sundial to get back in the fight. So considering you can control the tempo of the fight in a big way by holding houses and key roads. It pays to combine your strums and kubel in more strategically beneficial areas. You’ll find yourself more in control of the game, and be in an easier situation to execute from. This is really almost always the case when you have the right units at the right time. It also requires mentioning by getting right up into the face of conscripts, you’re actually giving them a slight advantage, especially if they aren’t suppressed, 9/10 you’ll lose a member on approach and the fight will be over, and conscripts are better at close range than in a mid-range bracket. Your pios will be most effective there, compared to point blank (unless they’re in cover and your target is suppressed or it’s a direct flank since at point blank weapons negate cover)
Otherwise, tactically you were fairly sharp, managing a few wipes of your own, but your execution started to plateau after losing the second Volks squad, either through frustration, exhaustion, or just basic errors, and then I feel like you panicked when your plan fell apart and did not have any adjustments, that’s where you lost in my mind, and frankly even the squad wipes you suffered, all that will come together with experience, once you see more situations and get more familiar with how the factions handle.
In closing, I would be more careful with your use of the LeiG. It’s not a mortar, it’s best used to support your infantry, almost like a long range MG, it’s not very good at indirect fire. Also, be a little more careful with your kubel, you had a great judgement call to have it fight the first script squad that got up on it, instead of fleeing, netting you a squad wipe, but having it sit still with a damaged engine and getting popped by a marauding conscript squad maybe a minute later, was really tragic, as well as the aforementioned truck issue.
I hope my feedback hasn’t discouraged you, or been too harsh. I hope you continue to play and improve. It’ll get easier with a larger perspective.
Thank you for the review, it gives me a few things to think about. I did get frustrated in this match because losing the Kubel and my first JP4 were really bad mistakes that felt like slow motion train-wrecks once they got started. I replaced the Volks with PF's because I don't like Volks vs IS2. Those battles seem to go like "miss, wait, miss, wait, squad wipe". PF's usually don't get wiped. That said, you're right, I should be watching overall composition better because I see your point.
The only reason that I wanted to put up the Schwerer was to lock down the center VP so that I could concentrate on one of the two VP's. With the fuel penalty, it isn't that often that I can get a Panther onto the field. |
Performance is fine. Price is not. The cheapest medium tank will be the worst medium. Plain and simple. Fucking deal with it. t34s are not panzer4s, while you guys might not care about a little authenticity when it comes to buffing allied units, relic does.
T34s are meant to be weak cheap mediums like they were. So yeah deal with it, no overbuffed/over exaggerated t34/76 performance. 280mp, 80-85 fuel.
If Relic cares about authenticity, explain Pak 43's shooting through buildings or IR halftracks seeing through everything. |
I don´t see a problem making it as cheap as a StuG. 230mp 80 fuel so it can be spammed. It should be an expandable tank, which you can lose. Mirroring it with the P4 is boring.
I want to see T-34 swarms rather than a single one fighting it out with Axis tanks.
Reduce the pop cap to 8 for it, and then along with the price decrease this would be a great idea. A horde of T34's versus a couple of Panthers and some AT guns would be much more fun. |
You are going in circles. First you claim that the P4 vs. T34/76 matchup isn't as skewed as I made it out to be, then when I disprove you, you state pricing. Thats not an argument, that is coming up with excuses.
The P4 can absolutely beat the T34/76 1v1. However, there is no reason for the P4 to be able to not only beat the T34/76 in a 1v1 engagement, yet also be able to get ALOT better with veterancy. It would be fine if the soviets were able to reasonably get a TD out with T3, and tech up to a true T4 with good, specialist units, like the ostheer can, but currently soviet T3 < Ostheer T3, and Soviet T4 = Ost T3.
This leads to a game where the stock soviets at their latest point in the game, are worse than both German factions in every way. That is not Asymmetrical design, that is plain BAD DESIGN. If you expect the callin meta to ever be fixed, it HAS to come with a fix to the core soviet lategame, because currently the core soviets are completely hardcountered by a single Pak43/ELE/JT, since they have no armor capable of supporting their infantry against heavy TDs. (don't expect cons/penals to do shit lategame without armor support to kill axis long range lmgs squads), not to mention the fact that the low DPS zis is only enough to scare away armor, not kill it.
Just because Ostheer T3 is as rare as Soviet T3 is no reason to claim balance. Everyone plays the game to win at high skill levels, and thus go for callins, to fight Soviet callins. However, let us not forget that non-callin-meta Ostheer is perfectly viable. This is why we see so many strategies based around CAS doctrine that rely on infantry with maybe 1 tank work perfectly fine.
Soviet T3 needs to have some advantage over Ostheer lategame, seeing as how it is the end of your tech tree. USF gets great AI + great AT at the end of the tech. Ostheer gets the Panther + Brummbar, both very useful breakthrough tanks to support with your P4s that also scale very well. OKW gets the King Tiger nondoctrinally, which can be suppored by AT infantry and great armor options, as well as the Panther for the early late game. T3 soviets get 1 unit, the T34/76, which loses to everything out of the box, then loses EVEN MORE as units vet up. T3 + T4 soviets lose the armor equaity vs. Ostheer, but gain a Katyusha, which is useful to harass defensive positions and blobs, and an SU85, which is Hard Countered by a single Heavy AT source.
Price is no reason to make a unit terrible at all times in the game. The Sherman costs less than a P4, yet is much better vs. infantry and only worse vs. vehicles, plus has the utility of radio net and smoke. Grens are much cheaper than riflemen, yet scale much better into the lategame with lmgs and vet. The Jackson costs a lot less than a Panther, but is much better vs. heavy tanks. The T34/76 is less than the P4 and Sherman, but worse than both in EVERY WAY (except for like .3 speed and acceleration vs. the P4), while also being the sole source of both AT and AI in Soviet T3. If you want to increase the price, I don't think anyone will complain about the increase if it becomes a good scaling tank like the Sherman or the P4. If you decrease the price and keep same stats, noone will complain because then it will actualy be cost effective for and have the numbers it needs lategame to deal with heavies. If you do neither, and also kill callins, you get a Soviet faction that is even worse lategame than USF ever was.
If Zyllen doesn't understand this, he's either trolling or doesn't play the game much. I'm betting that he's just trolling. |
That makes zero sense.
I was being sarcastic. Thank you for noticing. |
If they did that, the T-34/85 would need to see a nerf then. It's a bit strong to be your basic medium tank, and you wouldn't be able to field as many of them either. They should be at least P4 level if they're to be stock.
Sure, and while Relic is at it, they should nerf the Panther down to P4 level also, because they're the other tanks available in Tier 4. |