I'm sure this has been asked before, but is there currently anyway to obtain the Soviet Advanced Warfare and Ostheer Luftwaffe Close Air Support commanders? I played CoH2 on launch and returned when WFA was released, but I wasn't playing when these commanders were given away and so don't have access to them. Its a shame since I'd really like to try them out, especially the Ostheer one. If unavailable, have Relic indicated whether they will become obtainable again in the future? |
I agree with Jinseual and MilkaCow, but also I want to add that in my opinion, "well, the other factions have it" is a really bad justification for giving a faction a particular unit or ability. Currently, one aspect of USF as a faction is that they lack a late-game heavy tank. Since WFA launched, people have been calling for the Persching to be added, but I feel that factions are defined by what they lack just as much as by what they have. The lack of a heavy tank leads to nuanced, asymmetric play near the end of the match, and asymmetry of factions is one of my favourite features in the Company of Heroes franchise. If every faction was given every other factions' best unit just because "well, the other guy has it," they game would be far less interesting than it currently is. IMO, the lack of a Persching is a challenge to be enjoyed, not a balance flaw to complain about. |
Forward Observers and Recon Sweep are definitely decent, I just don't think they have enough impact on the game to make it worth choosing the doctrine.
The IRs aren't terrible, but I don't think they are worth it given the lack of combat utility. The US have other artillery solutions in other doctrines, and the Major has a very similar ability (not sure exactly how they compare as far as damage goes).
As you say, Greyhound is obsolete these days against OKW. I actually think its decent against Ostheer as long as you can avoid Panzerfausts, since it counters the Scout Car fairly well. The only use I can think of for it vs OKW is maybe suiciding to kill a Stuka or something.
The reason I don't like the Airdrop is that it comes very late and is very expensive, and normally as US there are other things I would rather purchase. I also think that Paratroops are way stronger early than late - early there isn't as much armour on the field and they have to time to accrue veterancy. Especially with Thompsons, I think the need veterancy to go up against late-game, vetted OKW units.
Overall, I just don't think the commander has enough impact on the outcome of the game. US early game is already very strong, and so I would rather supplement the late game, either with Rifle Company for E8s or Airborne, which allows you to start building tanks earlier without sacrificing tech. Admittedly, that's just personal preference.
I also think the commander is kind of weirdly designed and has a lot of redundant units/abilities. Forward Observers, Recon Sweep and IRs are all based around scouting and vision, but really just 1 or 2 of those would be sufficient. |
I don't think Snipers are inherently the problem, its just that OKW have no good counters to them early game. Nerfing snipers directly would only make them useless against Ostheer. |
If you've got Rifle Company then yeah, its fine to use E8s as a substitute for Tier 4. Given how E8s perform against Panthers, they should do respectable damage to a KT if they are hitting on the rear/side armour.
Also, when I said the KT wasn't good against infantry, I meant that it isn't good relative to its massive cost. It'll take it a while to clear out multiple infantry squads and AT guns. |
All AT grenades that I throw to the KT were damaging engine. I think one grenade will destroy engine.
I've had them fail to damage engine once or twice. IIRC correctly, they are treated as very high penetration, low damage weapons with the special property of damaging engines if they penetrate. I believe the KT has high enough armour that it can sometimes resist penetration. (I could be wrong about the mechanics stuff). |
Firstly, preparation. If the OKW player makes no fuel purchases for a long time, expect a KT. Scouting information is very useful for this: if you see all 3 trucks with no big armoured units, then a KT is very likely. Once you realises this, just try and slow it down as much as possible by attacking fuel/cutoff points.
Secondly, target priority. Surprisingly, the KT doesn't really do very much damage to anything except armoured units. If he's blobbing around the KT, use your own infantry to counter the blob in the normal way (MGs, artillery, vetted Rifles with BARs, e.t.c.) Once the OKW infantry is forced back, the KT becomes much more manageable.
Third, actually klling it. To begin with, anything that can slow down the KT or prevent its escape is very useful here. The simplest solution is probably Rifleman AT grenades (may need more than one to damage engine). The best unit for inflicting damage on the KT is by far the Jackson. If microed well, the KT will be unable to take a shot due to its very slow turrent rotation speed. Use this to flank the KT and start taking shots at the vulnerable, rear armour. This is why it is important to deal with the blob first: Panzerschrecks can drive off or kill the Jackson, but an unsupported KT allows the Jackson to get close or flank.
If you don't like/can't afford a Jackson, your best bet is massed AT guns (probably 2-3). Try to position them before the battle so that they can take shots on the side armour. Again, dealing with blob first is essential, or they will overrun the AT guns. Also, remember to activate the special AP rounds ability on all units that have it available; the extra penetration is extremely helpful against the KT.
Sherman flanking will also work, but they are slower than the Jackson and inflict far less damage vs. heavy armour, so this is much less ideal. E8s may work better, but I haven't seen E8s against a KT personally so I can't really comment. |
I know there are some OKW players who rely heavily on Panzerfusiliers and the Sturm Officer, but personally I've never really been able to make them work. I think this is probably because I don't really understand how to fit them in to a standard build order. So, what sort of build order would you guys recommend for Breakthrough Doctrine? Specifically, how many Volks should I build, and which comand truck should I go for first? Also, outside of build order, what kind of tactics are best used to stall until Panzerfuiliers can be called in at 2 CP? |
Yeah, I don't know why Relic decided I&Rs have to be so much weaker than the Airborne pathfinders. To be honest it seems like they haven't put much effort into the commander at all, for example the paratroopers from the airdrop still only get 3 Thompsons because they are technically a different unit and Relic didn't give them the buff. |
I've found it to be fairly lackluster. I&Rs are a pretty bad unit - only 3 men in a squad and they lack the sniper crit of the Airborne Pathfinders, so they don't hold up at all as a combat unit. The Artillery call-in is kinda nice, but a bit too expensive to justify the unit IMO.
They Greyhound is decent. It sort of fits in half-way between the M20 and the AA halftrack. The problem is, it doesn't really offer anything those units don't, so simply building the LT is probably a better idea. Also, since it doesn't suppress it can be driven off fairly easily just with Panzerschrecks. The armoured skirts upgrade helps with this a bit, but is a little pricey at 70 munitions. The best use I found for it was to go Captain first, using a pair of Greyhounds to provide the early dominance you would normally get from the LT. Still, not a great strategy in my experience.
Aside from the that, the Rifle vision boost is a bit hard to utilize (have to be stationary and in cover), and the big airdrop is just impractical for its cost and what it provides. Recon Plane is nice, but overall its not a commander I would reccommend. Basically, it just doesn't offer as much as other commanders |