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russian armor

Wehr weak penetration

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16 Oct 2019, 11:35 AM
#61
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1



And the exact same it true for panther, axis heavies, and super heavies against allied mediums

Ok at this point you are simply arguing for arguing. I have repeatedly point out to you that allied TDs are more cost efficient than the Panther


Yeah and allies need TDs more than axis do... You have succeeded in pointing out that the factions are not identical

No the do not. They simply have better ones. And that is bad designed since half the roster is not needed.
16 Oct 2019, 12:36 PM
#67
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1794

Interesting case of su85 tiger panther is2 dynamics. Surely we all agree su85 frightens tiger clearly more than the other way. At a lower costs as vipper mentioned of cost effectiveness
16 Oct 2019, 13:21 PM
#70
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1794

I say a lot of suggestions have been put out by concerned wehr users.

I just thought of 1. Since armour skirts vet is pretty useless now, we should supplement that vet with added heat rounds for stug p4 and p5.

For brumbar i think the armor vet sorta help and remains no change.

For okw, perhaps the heat doctrine helps to reduce costs or recharge time
16 Oct 2019, 13:25 PM
#71
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Oct 2019, 13:21 PMVipper

Ok at this point you are simply personally attacking me publicly and you are completely off topic.

Since you clearly reason you have personal issues with me I suggest you use private messages. Have a nice day and bye bye.


Still waiting on your balance suggestion. No personal issue, just pointing out your hypocrisy in this thread and that it takes away from your argument...

Buff Panther penetration? P4 penetration? Pak penetration? Do you still remember the topic?
16 Oct 2019, 14:01 PM
#72
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

So long as this game has units with 370+ armour in it, top tier nondoctrinal anti-tank units (SU-85, Jackson, Firefly, Panther) are going to have really high penetration values by necessity.
16 Oct 2019, 14:02 PM
#73
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

stop. asking. for. panther. buffs.

seriously the panther is perfectly fine doesnt need a buff or nerf... weve already had a poll on that

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Oct 2019, 12:36 PMmrgame2
Interesting case of su85 tiger panther is2 dynamics. Surely we all agree su85 frightens tiger clearly more than the other way. At a lower costs as vipper mentioned of cost effectiveness


are you seriously implying that an SU-85 can scare a tiger harder than a panther can scare an IS-2? ohh right at this point an AEC scares a panther because youre bad enough to lose panthers to it...
16 Oct 2019, 14:18 PM
#75
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1794

Yes SU85 is simply more cost effective vs Tiger than Panther vs IS2.

I check up coh2db for Tiger-IS2 dynamics.
Ok so Tiger gun has faster reload, but its turret is 50% worse than IS2 at vet3. IS2 has 25% more armor. IS2 has higher pen than Tiger. I guess i should add Tiger to the op list!

So SU85 pens Tiger on Vet. Panther needs more micro to pen IS2 despite paying a higher cost...

The downer though, IS2 managed to see higher % increase for its vet status. Even the recent ability change helps! Tiger blitz is questionable after heavies speed nerf many moons ago...

So just like my feelings from playing, Allies get better vet % stronger late game, and imo its down to the forgotton deposits, power creep perhaps of other attributes while keeping the older status buff.

Oh yeah, dshk > mg2 pintle upgrade.
16 Oct 2019, 14:27 PM
#76
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1794

I also like to comment on some comments

1. oh panther, just use its speed and armor and do its tank hunter thing.
Eh, yes after paying higher cost, but need to micro more. While allies 60TD can sit back, hit reverse, or pop-out crew repairs, hit ammo rounds, hit free sight. While costing less. And the fact blitz was complained so bad, it is becomes passive return, as long you dont get snared! So much work so much counters. Besides 320 more hp is not that much considering the risk vs rewards of staying in the fight against counters that pen and outrange you.


2. oh heavy armor allies, use elefant!
elefant and JT are very map dependent, some maps you wont want elefant even if you need it.
I will add ISU152 is less map dependent than those 2, and offers close-ish feelings to those casemates.
16 Oct 2019, 14:34 PM
#78
avatar of Loren

Posts: 107

The Panther has a heavy tank-level penetration.

Panther's 75mm has better penetration (260/240/220) than the 122 mm of the IS-2 (250/230/210) and 152mm AP of ISU-152 (260/230/200).

Wehr's Anti-tank weapons never have a low penetration.
If you compare all five factions, they are on the very high side.

The tanks mentioned in this article are all heavy class or equivalent tanks. And heavy class is, of course, difficult to penetrate.
16 Oct 2019, 14:35 PM
#79
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Oct 2019, 14:27 PMmrgame2

1. oh panther, just use its speed and armor and do its tank hunter thing.
Eh, yes after paying higher cost, but need to micro more. While allies 60TD can sit back, hit reverse, or pop-out crew repairs, hit ammo rounds, hit free sight. While costing less. And the fact blitz was complained so bad, it is becomes passive return, as long you dont get snared! So much work so much counters. Besides 320 more hp is not that much considering the risk vs rewards of staying in the fight against counters that pen and outrange you.


this further proves how bad you are

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Oct 2019, 14:27 PMmrgame2

2. oh heavy armor allies, use elefant!
elefant and JT are very map dependent, some maps you wont want elefant even if you need it.



thats 2 things axis has that the allies dont have as a counter to heavy tanks... and your argument of SU-85s scaring tigers more than panthers scaring IS-2s is complete BULLSHIT
16 Oct 2019, 14:39 PM
#80
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1794

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Oct 2019, 13:21 PMmrgame2
I say a lot of suggestions have been put out by concerned wehr users.

I just thought of 1. Since armour skirts vet is pretty useless now, we should supplement that vet with added heat rounds for stug p4 and p5.

For brumbar i think the armor vet sorta help and remains no change.

For okw, perhaps the heat doctrine helps to reduce costs or recharge time


More i think of this. More i like it as a quick fix.

Sure Vipper have thrown more holstic suggestions with P4 and 60TD, i also made other suggestions.

But at this stage, as spoken by sanders, Relic does not want more effort into the game. So a HEAT rounds seems like a good balance. We already see Okw perform with it and i doubt any objections to 'HEAT'. get "it" hehe
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