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So where are we on Balance?

28 Sep 2019, 18:30 PM
#21
avatar of Clarity

Posts: 479

As of general 1v1 balance at the moment I would probably rank the factions as follows:

1. USF - Really strong faction overall right now as Riflemen after the buffs are probably the overall best mainline infantry. They have good light vehicles that can apply pressure at different timings and probably the overall best machine-gun next to the MG42. The Jackson is still probably the best tank destroyer in the game, the HE Sherman slaughters infantry and USF has multiple viable doctrines at the moment in 1v1's allowing them to play multiple different strategies that are all useful in there own ways. Pak Howie is still good, the 57mm isn't perfect but still more consistent that the current Raketen and really USF's only flaw is that they don't have a non-doc rocket artillery unit. This can sometimes come into play against multiple MG's and Pak's. I would look at slightly toning down Rifles, maybe finding a way to prevent HE shells from being so devastating against infantry and otherwise look into finding a way to get more people to go Captain since currently LT seems much more common.

2. Ostheer - Ostheer is much better this patch and I think is overall in a good state currently, probably what the game should be balanced around at this point in time. Grens after the buff are actually good at Vet 3 finally, they still have good team weapons and the Ostwind is finally nasty against infantry. P-Grens are versatile and good for their cost, I feel really the only problem Ostheer has is cost-effectively dealing with Allied Tank Destroyers (especially the Jackson). To me this problem is more detrimental than USF's biggest issue.

3. OKW - This one was difficult because I think Soviets are similar in power level to OKW this patch but I still think Volks are solid for their cost, they still have great light vehicles in the Puma and Luchs. Battlegroup is kind of in a rough state as the Flak HT is better but still not the better option overall and having to pay for healing plus the truck is too expensive overall. Still, I think being able to get Obers slightly earlier is kind of nice and I still feel the OKW P4 is the overall best non-doctrinal medium tank atm. Falls are also too cheap for their performance but that will probably be tweaked in the future. OKW does have multiple problems though, I feel like they struggle against light vehicles if you don't go Puma simply because the Rak was made only marginally better but had it's cost increased to 290 making it too pricy to go for more than 1 in most cases. I do also think the JP4 struggles slightly too much against heavy tanks considering Allied Tank Destroyer are similarly priced and don't have the same penetration problems. OKW is decent in their current state but have some things that need to be toned down and others that need some slight buffs.

4. Soviets - I definitely don't think Soviets are in a bad state but I feel like you have to play specific strategies in certain matchups otherwise you struggle. I still think Conscripts are not viable against OKW currently because even if you rush for the 7-man upgrade it simply takes too long to be able to get it out. Plus if you purchase the upgrade you still have to pay full price for Tier 4 making it semi expensive side tech. Honestly I would just allow people to purchase the current 7-man upgrade once the side-tech from Tier 3 is researched. This would allow Conscripts to be a viable option in both matchups but would still give Penals a heavy advantage within the early game if you prefer to be aggressive with the M3 and Penal combo. Soviets do have some other things that could probably be toned down slightly in turn, The T-70 is probably slightly too good at killing infantry especially once it gets vet. I feel like otherwise the SU-76 is fine currently and the M5 is actually good but the T-70 just overshadows it. Tier 2 is almost viable but I still feel like currently either the Maxim or the Soviet Mortar just needs a little love to equalize Tier 1 and Tier 2's power levels. Still Soviets are enjoyable to play this patch.

5. UKF - Well we can definitely see how the entire factions power level was tied to batshit OP Infantry Sections and now that Tommies are reasonable I just don't think this faction has a really good unit outside of the Churchill or maybe a really fast Centaur. I don't think Brits necessarily struggle heavily against armor but now that Tommies don't absolutely dominate I think the Cromwell could probably use something to make it more consistent against infantry units. It doesn't have to be HE Sherman levels but maybe similar to the Ostheer P4.

My other issue with this patch is that although heavies are now tied to tech which is fantastic, I think the CP amount needs to be increased by 1-2 CP's for most of the heavy tanks as I feel currently with their performance being generally buffed across the board, they might come out slightly too quick catching your opponent before they would realistically be able to get more than 1 medium tank out to counter.
28 Sep 2019, 19:06 PM
#22
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

Where are we on Balance?

The state of balance in CoH2 has always been, and appears to forever be: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
28 Sep 2019, 19:16 PM
#23
avatar of Mr.Flush

Posts: 450

In 1's usf is a little op.
In teamgames mixed axis and soviet only teams are very strong. Heavy tank meta is really strong. Soviet at off maps are almost a must.
29 Sep 2019, 17:32 PM
#24
avatar of CODGUY

Posts: 884

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Sep 2019, 18:30 PMClarity
As of general 1v1 balance at the moment I would probably rank the factions as follows:

1. USF - Really strong faction overall right now as Riflemen after the buffs are probably the overall best mainline infantry. They have good light vehicles that can apply pressure at different timings and probably the overall best machine-gun next to the MG42. The Jackson is still probably the best tank destroyer in the game, the HE Sherman slaughters infantry and USF has multiple viable doctrines at the moment in 1v1's allowing them to play multiple different strategies that are all useful in there own ways. Pak Howie is still good, the 57mm isn't perfect but still more consistent that the current Raketen and really USF's only flaw is that they don't have a non-doc rocket artillery unit. This can sometimes come into play against multiple MG's and Pak's. I would look at slightly toning down Rifles, maybe finding a way to prevent HE shells from being so devastating against infantry and otherwise look into finding a way to get more people to go Captain since currently LT seems much more common.

2. Ostheer - Ostheer is much better this patch and I think is overall in a good state currently, probably what the game should be balanced around at this point in time. Grens after the buff are actually good at Vet 3 finally, they still have good team weapons and the Ostwind is finally nasty against infantry. P-Grens are versatile and good for their cost, I feel really the only problem Ostheer has is cost-effectively dealing with Allied Tank Destroyers (especially the Jackson). To me this problem is more detrimental than USF's biggest issue.

3. OKW - This one was difficult because I think Soviets are similar in power level to OKW this patch but I still think Volks are solid for their cost, they still have great light vehicles in the Puma and Luchs. Battlegroup is kind of in a rough state as the Flak HT is better but still not the better option overall and having to pay for healing plus the truck is too expensive overall. Still, I think being able to get Obers slightly earlier is kind of nice and I still feel the OKW P4 is the overall best non-doctrinal medium tank atm. Falls are also too cheap for their performance but that will probably be tweaked in the future. OKW does have multiple problems though, I feel like they struggle against light vehicles if you don't go Puma simply because the Rak was made only marginally better but had it's cost increased to 290 making it too pricy to go for more than 1 in most cases. I do also think the JP4 struggles slightly too much against heavy tanks considering Allied Tank Destroyer are similarly priced and don't have the same penetration problems. OKW is decent in their current state but have some things that need to be toned down and others that need some slight buffs.

4. Soviets - I definitely don't think Soviets are in a bad state but I feel like you have to play specific strategies in certain matchups otherwise you struggle. I still think Conscripts are not viable against OKW currently because even if you rush for the 7-man upgrade it simply takes too long to be able to get it out. Plus if you purchase the upgrade you still have to pay full price for Tier 4 making it semi expensive side tech. Honestly I would just allow people to purchase the current 7-man upgrade once the side-tech from Tier 3 is researched. This would allow Conscripts to be a viable option in both matchups but would still give Penals a heavy advantage within the early game if you prefer to be aggressive with the M3 and Penal combo. Soviets do have some other things that could probably be toned down slightly in turn, The T-70 is probably slightly too good at killing infantry especially once it gets vet. I feel like otherwise the SU-76 is fine currently and the M5 is actually good but the T-70 just overshadows it. Tier 2 is almost viable but I still feel like currently either the Maxim or the Soviet Mortar just needs a little love to equalize Tier 1 and Tier 2's power levels. Still Soviets are enjoyable to play this patch.

5. UKF - Well we can definitely see how the entire factions power level was tied to batshit OP Infantry Sections and now that Tommies are reasonable I just don't think this faction has a really good unit outside of the Churchill or maybe a really fast Centaur. I don't think Brits necessarily struggle heavily against armor but now that Tommies don't absolutely dominate I think the Cromwell could probably use something to make it more consistent against infantry units. It doesn't have to be HE Sherman levels but maybe similar to the Ostheer P4.

My other issue with this patch is that although heavies are now tied to tech which is fantastic, I think the CP amount needs to be increased by 1-2 CP's for most of the heavy tanks as I feel currently with their performance being generally buffed across the board, they might come out slightly too quick catching your opponent before they would realistically be able to get more than 1 medium tank out to counter.


Good post, good info thank you.

USF - I don't agree Rifles need a nerf, they are expensive infantry, expensive to build, upgrade, and maintain and punishing to lose, more so than Grens or Volks,they should be decent. Prior to this patch they were a VERY overrated unit. I also think the Sherman HE round is fine. Yes it is devastating WHEN it hits, which is one draw back. Where it more consistent and accurate I'd agree but it misses 1/3 to 1/2 of the time. In fact the Panzer IV main gun seems more consistent at killing infantry. The only time the Sherman M4A3 seems really devastating and borderline OP is if you have two or more but that's an expensive investment at 680 MP and 220 fuel plus if they're on HE shells they're very vulnerable to enemy tanks. The only reason I'd rate the M4A3 higher than the PIV against infantry is because of the .50 cal.

OST - Yes I agree OST is pretty good right now. In 1v1 with OST the key to winning is knowing the maps where to position MGs and AT guns. They are more effective against USF now than OKW now. Grens actually do pretty well against Riflemen too.

UKF - Nerfing Tommies was bad, they already nerfed them a while back with the Bren gun downgrade now they're in a pretty bad state because UKF was probably more dependant on Tommies than USF was on Riflemen. UKF has just two effective fighting infantry and the other unit besides Tommies is doctrinal only. The Bofors delete was just nasty and unnecessary too. I can't even play this faction anymore.
29 Sep 2019, 18:14 PM
#25
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1793

I play mainly 2v2 ost and i agree mostly with clarity.

Ost is much better now especially against ukf but cost inefficient late games against all.
I still say Ost late game is worst of all factions. Their vet bonus need to improve more.
Mg42 and Pak40 needs slightly faster reposition
Panther needs slightly better moving accuracy and rear armor.
Stug needs HE round instead of twp.
Then we are good good.

Usf and Sov mainline infantry got buffs, their early builds are very strong against grens and mg unless you get a closed out map like crossroads.

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