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russian armor

Eventually, need free commanders with a DLC ability

2 Oct 2013, 04:42 AM
#1
avatar of Turtle

Posts: 401

I purchased the Soviet DLC commanders once it was announced that bigger balance changes were in the works, and actually shown some of them.

I'm cool with the need to get income, and yadda yadda. It's always been about maintaining actual balance of the whole game.

But I'm going to have to say it, while I don't think these new commanders are overpowered (besides bugs and unintentional issues), I do think they they provide a distinctly powerful variety to a player who has them.

Variety meaning they have more tools at hand, meaning they're more likely to have the right tool for the job, even if they can only take 3 commanders at a time into a match.

Variety is a quality of its own, and this shows even more in team games.

As such, I'd like to see some free commanders at some point that have 1 of the unique abilities of these commanders. Basically, it makes 1 of the unique abilities of each DLC commander into something freely usable. However, the remaining ability stays locked behind the pay wall, and of course any similar mixes avoided.

Alternatively, some kind of rotation of these paid DLC commanders into free use, every weekend would do a lot help the community adjust to both their use, and how to fight against them.
2 Oct 2013, 04:55 AM
#2
avatar of Appleseed

Posts: 622

+1

also i could like to see they test those paid commander more before they release, i brought all 4 new commander and right now i pretty much stop using the Agren commander and russian counter attack commander already because call-in troop need MU? Agren doesn't worth the 50mu, 203 range is far but felt not useful compare to 152mm so i went back use the 152mm
2 Oct 2013, 07:23 AM
#3
avatar of wayward516

Posts: 229

IMHO the new commanders (with the exception of the German one with Assault Grens) are highly situational and come with lots of tradeoffs. Look at Urban Defense, for instance. No Shocks or Guards, no KV-8 or IS-2, and a special ability which is a huge fuel sink in the early game.

In my humble opinion, what players are giving up should be considered when talking about the utility of these commanders, and not just any fancy gimmicks they might come with. For instance, one of the best new Soviet commanders is the Shock Army, which came with Case Blue, since it has Shocks, the 120MM mortar, and Conscripts Assault Package. It's all about what you're giving up weighed against the value of what you're getting.

As such, I'd like to see some free commanders at some point that have 1 of the unique abilities of these commanders. Basically, it makes 1 of the unique abilities of each DLC commander into something freely usable. However, the remaining ability stays locked behind the pay wall, and of course any similar mixes avoided.


That being said, I agree with this and fully expect to see something like it with the next couple commanders, as well.
2 Oct 2013, 07:27 AM
#4
avatar of Nullist

Posts: 2425

Permanently Banned
In my humble opinion, what players are giving up should be considered when talking about the utility of these commanders, and not just any fancy gimmicks they might come with.


You aren't "giving up" anything when you pay to buy units that other players don't have access to.
2 Oct 2013, 07:34 AM
#5
avatar of wayward516

Posts: 229

Having purchased and tried out both Soviet paid DLC commanders, I'm now happily using the same old commanders I was using before they became available. I get what I want from existing doctrines. And having fought against both new German commanders, I don't fear them particularly more than any other commanders. Assault grens are nasty but I'm already usually going for Shocks and tons of Conscripts, so it's usually not too huge a deal.

What, in particular, is hurting players that don't have these commanders? I find them highly situational and not really better than existing ones.

Also, in the case of Urban Defense, you're clearly giving up Shocks (or Guards), Conscript upgrades, and heavy call-in tanks. Commanders are all about trading off certain potential units, upgrades or off-map abilities in exchange for other ones.
2 Oct 2013, 07:39 AM
#6
avatar of Nullist

Posts: 2425

Permanently Banned
Commanders are all about trading off certain potential units, upgrades or off-map abilities in exchange for other ones.


Yes. For ones that your asymmetric opponents don't have access to unless they buy them, and which grant you units, upgrades and offmaps that they otherwise wouldn't have to face vs a vanilla opponent.
2 Oct 2013, 07:43 AM
#7
avatar of tengen

Posts: 432

Maybe they should rename "Commanders" into "Champions", and every week there's a different rotation of 3 commanders available for everyone to use. If you want to use a non-preselected commander, you buy it.

If you want to grind it out, you spend the XP you've gained from your games.
2 Oct 2013, 09:43 AM
#8
avatar of Le Wish
Patrion 14

Posts: 813 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Oct 2013, 04:42 AMTurtle

As such, I'd like to see some free commanders at some point that have 1 of the unique abilities of these commanders. Basically, it makes 1 of the unique abilities of each DLC commander into something freely usable. However, the remaining ability stays locked behind the pay wall, and of course any similar mixes avoided.

Alternatively, some kind of rotation of these paid DLC commanders into free use, every weekend would do a lot help the community adjust to both their use, and how to fight against them.


Theese two suggestions are really great. I do hope that the first one is already planned in one way or the other. It would make sense to incorporate new abilities in new commanders, and perhaps carefully swap some in on existing commanders. Like the replacement infantry and osttruppen come to mind.

The latter idea sounds very clever I think, even from a businesspoint of view. Relic can this wasy both give players the ability to use the commanders, and if they like it, they can buy it. Something they might have not cared about at all otherwise (could work both ways though, as new commanders can be to gimmicky or situational).
2 Oct 2013, 11:19 AM
#9
avatar of Hirmetrium
Patrion 14

Posts: 179

I'll be honest, I'd rather see the older commanders get updated with new units and abilities. Some of them are really dull, samey and outright boring. The panzer command tank is in everything it seems, and isn't really a great unit like the field officer is. A lot of abilities are recycled and they tend to just make the game boring.
2 Oct 2013, 17:23 PM
#10
avatar of starwolf64

Posts: 44

In the beginning I sort of expected them to release a set of two or three commanders whenever new abilities get released so everyone online gets them along with paid counterparts that also have the new abilities but shuffled differently. Either way I doubt it costs relic a lot to come up and put together the new commanders so it's unlikely they'll change the paid only formula even if they're making very little from it. They really missed out on the unlocking (some) new commanders for free aspect by playing the game, I think that would have really encouraged more people to play online and would increase the games popularity. Not to sound negative but there was like only 1 unlockable commander per faction wow they truly outdone themselves.
2 Oct 2013, 17:34 PM
#11
avatar of undostrescuatro

Posts: 525

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Oct 2013, 07:43 AMtengen
Maybe they should rename "Commanders" into "Champions", and every week there's a different rotation of 3 commanders available for everyone to use. If you want to use a non-preselected commander, you buy it.

If you want to grind it out, you spend the XP you've gained from your games.


this is relic with an introduction to soviet counter attack commander!

2 Oct 2013, 17:54 PM
#12
avatar of alexshiro

Posts: 62



this is relic with an introduction to soviet counter attack commander!



What's your point?


Imo, the champion rotation thing would be good, as well as some free commanders every now and then, but I think it'd be best if the commanders were free. I'm all for selling skins and facplates (I even made a sarcastic post defending them), but I thought they were going for a competitive esport thing and I don't think selling multiplayer advantage, even situational, is the way to do that.
2 Oct 2013, 18:04 PM
#13
avatar of undostrescuatro

Posts: 525



What's your point?


Imo, the champion rotation thing would be good, as well as some free commanders every now and then, but I think it'd be best if the commanders were free. I'm all for selling skins and facplates (I even made a sarcastic post defending them), but I thought they were going for a competitive esport thing and I don't think selling multiplayer advantage, even situational, is the way to do that.




joke

2 Oct 2013, 18:31 PM
#14
avatar of Turtle

Posts: 401

Actually, it's pretty applicable. It's clear Relic is taking inspiration for this commander system from free to play MOBA style games, as a way to monetize the game after release.

I also think the MP mode should go free to play with just 3 free commanders, and maybe 1 co-op ToW mission and some better tutorials.

But they kind of have to fix a lot of technical issues before that.
2 Oct 2013, 18:45 PM
#15
avatar of tengen

Posts: 432

If Relic goes the way of Riot, then what you'll end up with is a few good commanders for the metagame, and a whole slew of worthless commanders. Out of Riot's what, 110+ champions, only a dozen are used in top-tier gaming, and that's reflected on the ladder.
2 Oct 2013, 18:46 PM
#16
avatar of alexshiro

Posts: 62



joke


I figured it was a joke I didn't get. Sry I ruined it.

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Oct 2013, 18:31 PMTurtle
Actually, it's pretty applicable. It's clear Relic is taking inspiration for this commander system from free to play MOBA style games, as a way to monetize the game after release.

I also think the MP mode should go free to play with just 3 free commanders, and maybe 1 co-op ToW mission and some better tutorials.

But they kind of have to fix a lot of technical issues before that.


Yeah, but I already paid 30 euro, plus they have a more expensive edition, and then they're talking about a season pass I hear. That's... really pushing it to put it politely.

Btw, the commander and skin prices struck me as pretty steep, how do they compare to Champion and skin prices or other free to play stuff?
2 Oct 2013, 19:31 PM
#17
avatar of KingAnj

Posts: 75

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Oct 2013, 18:45 PMtengen
If Relic goes the way of Riot, then what you'll end up with is a few good commanders for the metagame, and a whole slew of worthless commanders. Out of Riot's what, 110+ champions, only a dozen are used in top-tier gaming, and that's reflected on the ladder.


This is why i stopped playing LoL.

I like the idea of COH2 MP +3 commanders being Free to play, as it will increase the automatch pool for low-level players.

Right now, i feel COH2 has WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY too many commanders and not a single one is balanced. I feel the orginial 3 commanders are awful in alot of ways but, OMG-BROKEN in another way(
2 Oct 2013, 22:12 PM
#18
avatar of sir muffin

Posts: 531

No, i paid for them, no way someone who didn't should get them
2 Oct 2013, 23:43 PM
#19
avatar of undostrescuatro

Posts: 525

No, i paid for them, no way someone who didn't should get them


tipical DCE mentality. i am DCE owner too.
3 Oct 2013, 00:37 AM
#20
avatar of sir muffin

Posts: 531



tipical DCE mentality. i am DCE owner too.


well excuse me for not wanting my money wasted
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