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USF got too many buffs

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13 Mar 2019, 10:11 AM
#121
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Mar 2019, 07:45 AMEsxile

Do you have the old values and new one, my understanding is that the M20 actually comes later.

As requested:
Old cost was
200/50
340/20
total
540/70
-15 starting fuel
540/55

Current cost is
200/35
50/20
240/20
total
490/75
-20 starting fuel
490/55

The fuel is the same but the manpower is less, in addition this build give you now 2 units with access to bazookas (Lt, crew) and the M20 received a number of buffs (so did the LT).

M20
The M20 has received some adjustments to increase its ability to scale into the mid game and be easier to replace if lost.
-Manpower cost from 340 to 240
-M20 accuracy from 0.75/0.475/0.2 to 0.55/0.45/0.25
-Weapon accuracy increases with veterancy: +10%/+15%/+15%
-Veterancy requirements lowered from 880/1760/3520 to 500/1000/2000
-Veterancy 3 reduces mine deployment time from 12 to 7 seconds.
-Veterancy 3 increases stealth detection radius by 10; goes up to 35.

In other word the M20 is cheaper in manpower and more powerful.
13 Mar 2019, 10:37 AM
#122
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

What are the old veterancy accuracy bonuses? The accuracy changes on paoper gave it some long range firepower but reduced its short range lethality: it'd be interesting to see if the accuracy changes are just buffs or if they were altered to compensate.
13 Mar 2019, 10:48 AM
#123
avatar of wuff

Posts: 1534 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Mar 2019, 18:04 PMLago
USF's Mechanized commander could maybe stand to be toned down a little. Beyond that, I'm not sure what else needs adjusting. USF's internal balance is so good right now that any tweaks to nondoctrinal units risk killing the tweaked unit.

  • WC51 no longer can be decrewed.
  • Mark Target and 155mm Artillery removed from WC51.
    Standard Sherman dozer blade upgrade removed.


The WC51's proved itself as an excellent unit. The rationale behind giving incongruous command abilities in the first place was to make it worth building: it's easily worth building without them.

Removing the vehicle crew would force USF to repair it with their REs when it gets damaged, lowering its early game shock value.

As for the Dozer Blades, they're visually confusing (they make Shermans look like the 105mm Sherman Bulldozer) and are a buff the 75mm doesn't really need. The excellent new 76mm Sherman is enough in my opinion.


+1

The jeep is broken and the cavalrymen prob need come a little later
13 Mar 2019, 10:50 AM
#124
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Mar 2019, 10:37 AMLago
What are the old veterancy accuracy bonuses?

You can easily find them here:
https://www.coh2.org/guides/29892/the-company-of-heroes-2-veterancy-guide#1233
the bonuses where not removed the m20 simply now get more bonuses.

The unit also vet faster since a Vet 3 M20 is now much closer to vet 2 M20.

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Mar 2019, 10:37 AMLago

The accuracy changes on paoper gave it some long range firepower but reduced its short range lethality: it'd be interesting to see if the accuracy changes are just buffs or if they were altered to compensate.

They are straight buffs and the change to close accuracy is hardly a nerf because it applies mostly to ranges close to 0-10 and the m20 hardly chooses to go point blank.

Actually a vet 3 m20 post patch has
107% 138% 182%!!!

more DPS than it used to close mid and long range respectively. Keep in mind that a vet 0 m20 has a range of 45.
13 Mar 2019, 11:21 AM
#125
avatar of ProxyFox

Posts: 8

USF is probably the worst faction in 2v2. No sniper, no rocket artillery, no good late game tanks.

Though USF is relatively good at 1v1. And also do decently at 3v3 4v4 since it's easy to spam tank and Infantry Company is quite good there.
13 Mar 2019, 12:08 PM
#126
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Mar 2019, 10:50 AMVipper
They are straight buffs and the change to close accuracy is hardly a nerf because it applies mostly to ranges close to 0-10 and the m20 hardly chooses to go point blank.


It used to fight that close. It'd utterly butcher any snareless unit left exposed, but was disappointingly ineffective vs snares.

Then OKW got snares and the M20 gave way to the Stuart. Then the Stuart got nerfed and the Stuart gave way to a AAHT.

Flattening out its damage was a good call imo. It turns it into a solid damage dealer all round rather than plinking away at snare troops and mercilessly slaughtering engineers, MGs and PGrens.
13 Mar 2019, 12:11 PM
#127
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Mar 2019, 12:08 PMLago


It used to fight that close. It'd utterly butcher any snareless unit left exposed, but was disappointingly ineffective vs snares.

Then OKW got snares and the M20 gave way to the Stuart. Then the Stuart got nerfed and the Stuart gave way to a AAHT.

Flattening out its damage was a good call imo. It turns it into a solid damage dealer all round rather than plinking away at snare troops and mercilessly slaughtering engineers, MGs and PGrens.

Flatting out the damage output was a good changes buffing the far DPS by 180% and lowering XP values was not.

The units was great before the tech changes and yet it received major buffs like price reduction, XP value, DPS buff while calling it become less punishing since Bazooka access and ATG access become easier/cheaper.
13 Mar 2019, 12:29 PM
#128
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Mar 2019, 12:11 PMVipper

Flatting out the damage output was a good changes buffing the far DPS by 180% and lowering XP values was not.

The units was great before the tech changes and yet it received major buffs like price reduction, XP value, DPS buff while calling it become less punishing since Bazooka access and ATG access become easier/cheaper.


It really, really wasn't. It cost 340 MP for a start.

It could stand to lose the crew bazooka now it can get LT Bazooka and Stuart support, but the M20 was pretty much unseen before the revamp.
13 Mar 2019, 12:50 PM
#129
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Mar 2019, 12:29 PMLago

It really, really wasn't. It cost 340 MP for a start.

You are entitled to your opinion but 6 buff including cheaper AND more DPS is usually a bad approach. Add the new tech tree and it makes even worse.

In the end of the day it was unnecessary since the tech change alone was enough to provide new reason to built it and one could simply see how that goes and adjust.

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Mar 2019, 12:29 PMLago

It could stand to lose the crew bazooka now it can get LT Bazooka and Stuart support, but the M20 was pretty much unseen before the revamp.

The m20 was used 1vs1 allot for many years and after the patch it used even more in the tournament with devastating result. It would probably see even more action if the WC51 was not so OP.

Now we have established that M20 has been buffed, so we can simply move on.
13 Mar 2019, 13:10 PM
#130
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3596 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Mar 2019, 12:50 PMVipper

You are entitled to your opinion but 6 buff including cheaper AND more DPS is usually a bad approach. Add the new tech tree and it makes even worse.

In the end of the day it was unnecessary since the tech change alone was enough to provide new reason to built it and one could simply see how that goes and adjust.


The m20 was used 1vs1 allot for many years and after the patch it used even more in the tournament with devastating result. It would probably see even more action if the WC51 was not so OP.

Now we have established that M20 has been buffed, so we can simply move on.


Nobody said the M20 hasn't been buffed, I simply mentioned that it comes later than before. The M20 has been buffed and those buffs were required to keep the unit being something else than a counter for sniper on wheel.
I don't see the M20 being too good at the moment, usual OKW and Ostheer counters are still properly working vs it.
13 Mar 2019, 13:18 PM
#131
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Mar 2019, 13:10 PMEsxile


Nobody said the M20 hasn't been buffed,...

yes they have:
jump backJump back to quoted post13 Mar 2019, 10:37 AMLago
What are the old veterancy accuracy bonuses? The accuracy changes on paoper gave it some long range firepower but reduced its short range lethality: it'd be interesting to see if the accuracy changes are just buffs or if they were altered to compensate.
13 Mar 2019, 14:10 PM
#132
avatar of SupremeStefan

Posts: 1220

Thread
\locked

Reason - too many offtopic
13 Mar 2019, 16:05 PM
#133
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

Thread
\locked

Reason - too many offtopic

Offtopic?
Oh you mean showing each unbalanced aspect of UFS? Its on topic then.
13 Mar 2019, 16:50 PM
#134
avatar of Corsin

Posts: 600

I think pathfinders should have to pay for their rifle upgrade like Jager infantry does,(especially since they can no longer come out of buildings).
Also Empty tanks should still be owned by the player, so getting out of a tank doesnt fk up targeting. this isnt really a nerf but it would make a useful difference.

Maybe RE's been able to hold only 1 heavy weapon so you cant turn them into a super cheap zook ball.

Id also like to see the accuracy on the Pak arti guns, either im insanely unlucky or they are super accurate. Was using them as USF last night though and got quite a few squad wipes.

Other than that, I think its kinda fine? Oh and the USF jeep needs fixing so it can be snared.
13 Mar 2019, 21:04 PM
#135
avatar of SupremeStefan

Posts: 1220


Offtopic?
Oh you mean showing each unbalanced aspect of UFS? Its on topic then.
Then show me more.What u think? Maybe sherman is op too ? Because sometimes penetrate your poor tiger.
14 Mar 2019, 00:38 AM
#136
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

Then show me more.What u think? Maybe sherman is op too ? Because sometimes penetrate your poor tiger.

why shoud i repeat what other have already said, take a moment and read all the post along the thread and you will know my opinion. If you think im axis biased, boi you are missing by a longshot.

Does it hurt so much to say mean things of USF?

14 Mar 2019, 01:09 AM
#137
avatar of kingdun3284

Posts: 392

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Mar 2019, 09:06 AMddd
Ok so you remove free officer, but you will compensate with free nades or free weapon upgrades or free emplacements, right? Just like the axis factions?

Best idea I have ever seen, Officer are trashs and redundant for USF. Unlock grenade, smoke, delete weapon rack and give every infantry unit of USF on field upgrade and AT nades with tech up will bring Rifleman back to the front line. Then reduce the cost of unlocking another (captain/LT) tier after you unlock the first one.
14 Mar 2019, 01:59 AM
#138
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358


Best idea I have ever seen, Officer are trashs and redundant for USF. Unlock grenade, smoke, delete weapon rack and give every infantry unit of USF on field upgrade and AT nades with tech up will bring Rifleman back to the front line. Then reduce the cost of unlocking another (captain/LT) tier after you unlock the first one.

He is basically trolling and you support him... or trolling aside him
14 Mar 2019, 02:26 AM
#139
avatar of kingdun3284

Posts: 392


He is basically trolling and you support him... or trolling aside him

He may be trolling, but doesn't mean this idea is worthless. Remove officer in game can promote even more unit diversity when playing USF. Being forced to build something which may be totally useless in some situation is bad design.
14 Mar 2019, 02:29 AM
#140
avatar of theekvn

Posts: 306

Nerf Howie, Nerf M20, Nerf M8 scout. What's next ?
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