After trying the new and improved Osttruppen Doctrine, I've been wondering what other unorthodox commanders I could take for a spin.
And I'm wondering: is Hull Down at all usable nowadays?
I remember a bunch of weird changes to it, but I don't recall exactly what the current state of it is.
Was the bonus sight range totally removed? Or was that rolled back?
And what's a good use for Hull Down? I assume people spam 222s with it? Or is it actually meant to be used with medium armor to provide area denial after pushing back enemies?
Also, are there any mathematical constants worth noting about it? Like, does it allow, say, a 222 to survive, say, three Conscript handheld AT grenades or two Penal satchels or anything useful like that?
Does anyone use Hull Down?
9 Sep 2018, 05:51 AM
#1
Posts: 246
9 Sep 2018, 08:57 AM
#2
Posts: 186
There are some players who use it in 3v3 there is a korean named "bong" (somewhere in top20 as ost) who only plays commanders with hulldown he usually starts with one hmg and an early sniper gets light vehicles and at guns as he needs them and tries to get a fast p5 that he hulls down to secure a safe space against all allied tds and other vehicles.
The current buffs should be a range increase to 62.5 for panther and stug vs 60 for allied tds, and it should give some damage reduction but i do not know the exact values but it is usually enough to take some extra at gun shots depending on your tanks hp and if you also use the command p4 with the aura aswell.
The current buffs should be a range increase to 62.5 for panther and stug vs 60 for allied tds, and it should give some damage reduction but i do not know the exact values but it is usually enough to take some extra at gun shots depending on your tanks hp and if you also use the command p4 with the aura aswell.
9 Sep 2018, 15:51 PM
#3
Posts: 246
The current buffs should be a range increase to 62.5 for panther and stug vs 60 for allied tds, and it should give some damage reduction but i do not know the exact values but it is usually enough to take some extra at gun shots depending on your tanks hp and if you also use the command p4 with the aura aswell.
But is that firing range or vision range? Or both?
Do you absolutely have to have infantry up front of a hulled down vehicle to provide enough vision range to make use of max firing range, or can you actually keep the infantry behind it to protect from flanks?
9 Sep 2018, 16:18 PM
#4
Posts: 186
Firing range, you need to support it with some kind of infantry in front or a 222 with vet2 / 251 with vet 3. Otherwise some mobile units are usually a nice addition. Otherwise you can let it only counterfire but that isn't optimal if you want to get the most out of your panther.
I do not have any replays where anybody used hulldown but i will save them if i find some.
I do not have any replays where anybody used hulldown but i will save them if i find some.
9 Sep 2018, 16:25 PM
#5
1 
Posts: 2885
In 1v1 you will usually use your early game 222 to spot for hull down vehicles. In team games you can use recon that is available in elefant hull down commander or you can use spotting scopes of your allies. Infantry and snipers are of course good choices as well.
9 Sep 2018, 16:57 PM
#6
Posts: 246
I'm actually surprised there's no commander that gives both Spotting Scope AND Hull Down.
Seems like a no-brainer to add a mechanized defense playstyle to Ostheer. Wonder what the chances are of one of the lower tier commanders being revamped to have both.
Seems like a no-brainer to add a mechanized defense playstyle to Ostheer. Wonder what the chances are of one of the lower tier commanders being revamped to have both.
9 Sep 2018, 18:05 PM
#7
Posts: 186
If i remember correctly the Festungsarmordoctrine the one with the Elefant had scopes and hulldown until it was changed to the recon plane as the scopes made it too strong. so it will probably never be changed back or added in a new commander.
9 Sep 2018, 18:33 PM
#8
Posts: 246
Just tested out Festung Armor... you can't Hull Down 222s anymore??
What the hell is the point in it then?
I mean, I was able to tank a Penal satchel alongside other damage quite nicely while hulled down with a Panzer IV, but not being able to use a 3CP ability until medium tanks are out is absurd for a faction that STILL, to this day, doesn't have an actually armored armored car.
I don't know why Hulling Down 222s was removed, but that pretty much seals the deal for me never to use any commander with Hull Down...
What the hell is the point in it then?
I mean, I was able to tank a Penal satchel alongside other damage quite nicely while hulled down with a Panzer IV, but not being able to use a 3CP ability until medium tanks are out is absurd for a faction that STILL, to this day, doesn't have an actually armored armored car.
I don't know why Hulling Down 222s was removed, but that pretty much seals the deal for me never to use any commander with Hull Down...
9 Sep 2018, 18:40 PM
#9
1 Posts: 2885
I'm actually surprised there's no commander that gives both Spotting Scope AND Hull Down.
Seems like a no-brainer to add a mechanized defense playstyle to Ostheer. Wonder what the chances are of one of the lower tier commanders being revamped to have both.
I guess it is for ballance reasons. It would be pretty much impossible to ballance hull down if it was in one commander with scopes. You would either nerf one of these abilities, making all of the other commanders that use them useless, or you would have to cope with having an OP commander. Too much synergy can also be a bad thing.
10 Sep 2018, 00:45 AM
#10
Posts: 422 | Subs: 2
Just tested out Festung Armor... you can't Hull Down 222s anymore??
What the hell is the point in it then?
I mean, I was able to tank a Penal satchel alongside other damage quite nicely while hulled down with a Panzer IV, but not being able to use a 3CP ability until medium tanks are out is absurd for a faction that STILL, to this day, doesn't have an actually armored armored car.
I don't know why Hulling Down 222s was removed, but that pretty much seals the deal for me never to use any commander with Hull Down...
You never could hull-down a 222 in the first place. There's no animation state for the 222 hull down in the game files (probably because armored cars don't have 'hulls'), and never have I even once seen a hull-down anything that wasn't a tracked medium or heavy vehicle, and I've played ever since vanilla.
Unfortunately, because CoH2 is more of a mobility focused game when it comes to armor, any attempt at buffing Hull Down wouldn't increase its viability unless it was buffed to ludicrously cheesy levels.
Japan:
-no unit preservation ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
10 Sep 2018, 02:35 AM
#11
Posts: 246
You never could hull-down a 222 in the first place.
Unless I dreamt it up in some fever dream, I'm quite certain Hull Down worked on 222s at some point, possibly very long ago around vanilla CoH2.
I distinctly have visual recollection of hulling down a 222 at least a few times.
Either way, would love to see improvements to Festung Armor, perhaps replacing Command Tank with something better or buffing the Command Tank so that it can actually penetrate medium tanks, since the defensive buff it grants was apparently deemed too powerful and nerfed into such a sorry state.
10 Sep 2018, 10:24 AM
#12
Posts: 186
The Command p4 is quite nice against infantry i usually use it if i need lategame antiinfantry units and either don't need antiair or already have an ostwind in my opinion the sommnd p4 is a great addition to the elefant as it gives a vehicle wihout buildtime that allows the elefant to keep safe distance from infantry as it can spot and deter infantry. The 10% damage reduction buff is just a cherry on top and allows to take one extra tank shot or one extra rocket from rocket arty against infantry if you are lucky you might stand longer in mortar fire.
16 Sep 2018, 06:04 AM
#13
Posts: 1159
222 has never had hull down.
You may be thinking of the scout car from panzer elite which locked down a sector.
You may be thinking of the scout car from panzer elite which locked down a sector.
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