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New player advice.

28 Aug 2018, 14:20 PM
#1
avatar of Snipercam7

Posts: 32

In a nutshell, I'm new to the MP side of CoH2, though I watch streams fairly often. I've got three main questions.

1: Does the commander advice here still hold true?

2: In terms of intel bulletins, is it something that you should tailor to each commander set or are there generally a "best set" if you can get them, like mainline infantry accuracy/cooldown?

3: What factions/commander are best to learn initially to get a grasp on the MP scene as a whole, and is it best to start 1v1 or team games?
28 Aug 2018, 16:45 PM
#2
avatar of AtomicRockets
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 791

1. Well, the advice is all over the place, could you specify?
In my opinion, these are 4 strong commander picks for each faction:
- Mobile Defense (WM)
- Blitzkrieg (WM)
- Lightning War (WM)
- Jaeger Armor (WM)
- Guard Motor Coordination (SU)
- Mechanized Support (SU)
- Guard Rifle Combined Arms (SU)
- Armored Assault (SU)
- Special Operations (OKW)
- Luftwaffe Ground Forces (OKW)
- Breakthrough (OKW)
- Fortifications (OKW)
- Heavy Cavalry (USF)
- Infantry (USF)
- Airborne (USF)
- Mechanized (USF)
- Special Weapons (UKF)
- Vanguard Operations (UKF)
- Commando (UKF)
- Mobile Assault (UKF)

2. Generally, intel bulletins should be designed around your playstyle with the faction's standard units, unless you are 100% certain that you will be using a certain doctrine. As an example, most players utilize Riflemen bulletins because they are central to virtually any USF build.

3. Soviets are relatively easy to pick up. Plenty of options in build orders, lots of viable commanders. Brits are generally the most difficult faction. Next would probably be WM.
28 Aug 2018, 17:09 PM
#3
avatar of Rosbone
Senior Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 980 | Subs: 2

1. The commander choice is tied heavily to game mode. 1v1 commanders are different than 4v4. 1v1 commanders give early game advantage or have vehicle call ins so you do not have to tech. Who ever gets vehicles out first will do well. 4v4 commanders require recon and artillery to counter the artillery your enemy will be erasing your army with late game.

2: Many pros suggest running bulletins for units that you start with in the game. Units you will be making and using the entire game. Usually mainline infantry. When I see players running all late game tank bulletins I tend to think they are noobs (without using CELO). Running bulletins for late game units that may never be built = not running any bulletins at all.

One exception is SOVIET. Running certain bulletins will tell the enemy which tier you are going to build 1st. So running all penal bulletins says you will not be making Maxims, ZiS, Mortars, etc. So the bulletins give away your strategy.

3: I am the opposite of most people on this site and say 4v4 is the best place to learn. 1v1 the game is over if you make one mistake. 1v1 will make you the better player. So move from 4v4 to 1v1 as your skill increases.
28 Aug 2018, 17:09 PM
#4
avatar of Snipercam7

Posts: 32

My apologies, I should perhaps have been more specific, I was thinking about the specific post by TheGentlemanTroll within the thread. As for the commanders, I seem to have quite a few of the ones you recommend, but for the Soviets I only have two. Are things like the Lend Lease commander decent or relatively weak?

Also, as a newer player, my options for the intel bulletins seems quite limited, and from what I have been able to find regarding them, people seem to consider things like reload speed and cooldown quite weak, implying that only really the accuracy boost that I have is reasonable. Are there any notable bulletins you'd recommend purchasing with supply when I build it up?
28 Aug 2018, 17:15 PM
#5
avatar of Snipercam7

Posts: 32

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Aug 2018, 17:09 PMRosbone
1. The commander choice is tied heavily to game mode. 1v1 commanders are different than 4v4. 1v1 commanders give early game advantage or have vehicle call ins so you do not have to tech. Who ever gets vehicles out first will do well. 4v4 commanders require recon and artillery to counter the artillery your enemy will be erasing your army with late game.

2: Many pros suggest running bulletins for units that you start with in the game. Units you will be making and using the entire game. Usually mainline infantry. When I see players running all late game tank bulletins I tend to think they are noobs (without using CELO). Running bulletins for late game units that may never be built = not running any bulletins at all.

One exception is SOVIET. Running certain bulletins will tell the enemy which tier you are going to build 1st. So running all penal bulletins says you will not be making Maxims, ZiS, Mortars, etc. So the bulletins give away your strategy.

3: I am the opposite of most people on this site and say 4v4 is the best place to learn. 1v1 the game is over if you make one mistake. 1v1 will make you the better player. So move from 4v4 to 1v1 as your skill increases.


1: That makes sense. So for 4v4s, things like recon planes, supply-boosting trucks, artillery and airdrops are useful perhaps?

2: That did occur to me, since as I mention above my choices are/were limited, but looking at things like penal accuracy enhancements would indicate to an opponent I was going T1 rather than T2. Is it still generally worth it or is the information far more valuable than the boosts?

3: That's useful to know. Are there any commanders/factions you'd recommend starting 4v4 so I'm not too harsh a drain on my allies?
28 Aug 2018, 17:51 PM
#6
avatar of Rosbone
Senior Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 980 | Subs: 2

NOTES:
- I am not a great player.
- I am not a strategist.
- Commanders are currently being changed, so this will all be wrong soon.

1: That makes sense. So for 4v4s, things like recon planes, supply-boosting trucks, artillery and airdrops are useful perhaps?
Yes. Low level 4v4 games can be won by two things arty and vehicle repair. So I use arty commanders or commanders that will repair your vehicles. Vehicles deal damage well but can be fragile. Push, inflict damage, gain veterency, repair. Do not over extend them and lose them.

2: That did occur to me, since as I mention above my choices are/were limited, but looking at things like penal accuracy enhancements would indicate to an opponent I was going T1 rather than T2. Is it still generally worth it or is the information far more valuable than the boosts?
We need a strategist view here.

3: That's useful to know. Are there any commanders/factions you'd recommend starting 4v4 so I'm not too harsh a drain on my allies?

Team games usually rely on team mate support. Which will not exist until you are level 12 or so.

OKW
FORTIFICATIONS - Best stand alone commander for 4v4. OKW is very strong for about 2 minutes then they can get pushed out of territory. Emplacements are a bad investment but can help you hold territory until your team can help you. You lack recon but have artillery.

SOV
SOVIET COMBINED ARMS ARMY - Guards, Recon, Howie etc all in one commander.
ARMORED ASSAULT TACTICS - If the match does not appear to turn into an arty fight I will go this for vehicle repair. Its real strength is letting your team know what the enemy is making. So the earlier you select it the better.

WEHR
JOINT OPERATIONS DOCTRINE - recon and artillery.

USF
INFANTRY COMPANY - There is no other choice for stand alone support. Priest is very good.

BRIT
ADVANCED EMPLACEMENT REGIMENT - If you make emplacements this is the only way to go. You will get rekt hard late game so do not over invest in emplacements(they are easily destroyed late game).
MOBILE ASSAULT REGIMENT - Lots of good stuff here.
29 Aug 2018, 04:09 AM
#7
avatar of AtomicRockets
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 791

My apologies, I should perhaps have been more specific, I was thinking about the specific post by TheGentlemanTroll within the thread. As for the commanders, I seem to have quite a few of the ones you recommend, but for the Soviets I only have two. Are things like the Lend Lease commander decent or relatively weak?

Also, as a newer player, my options for the intel bulletins seems quite limited, and from what I have been able to find regarding them, people seem to consider things like reload speed and cooldown quite weak, implying that only really the accuracy boost that I have is reasonable. Are there any notable bulletins you'd recommend purchasing with supply when I build it up?


No problem, just trying to clear things up!

Lend Lease is still quite strong and will be even stronger next patch (assuming the cost reduction of the M4C Sherman goes through). DshKs are exceptionally powerful, Fuel Drops are great for rushing armor, and the M4C's main gun becomes an autocannon once it vets up.

Shock Rifle Frontline is decent, Shocks are amazing close-quarters infantry, AT gun camouflage is a nice bonus, Incendiary Artillery is strong against support weapons, KV-8 is strong anti-infantry (and will be even stronger next patch), IS-2 has frontal armor as thick as a King Tiger and can reliably fight Panthers and Tigers.

The way the game engine works, accuracy is going to be more valuable per se than reload and cooldown.
Personally, I go with veterancy, ability cost, and build time bulletins. Faster Vet means better units earlier. Ability Cost reduction (e.g. Panzerfaust, Teller Mine, Grenades, Medical Kit) might save only a few munitions at a time but over the course of an entire game, it could mean up to 100 extra munitions. Build Time means earlier map presence, which translates into more map control, giving you more resources to work with.
30 Aug 2018, 17:14 PM
#8
avatar of TheGentlemenTroll

Posts: 963 | Subs: 1

My apologies, I should perhaps have been more specific, I was thinking about the specific post by TheGentlemanTroll within the thread. As for the commanders, I seem to have quite a few of the ones you recommend, but for the Soviets I only have two. Are things like the Lend Lease commander decent or relatively weak?

Also, as a newer player, my options for the intel bulletins seems quite limited, and from what I have been able to find regarding them, people seem to consider things like reload speed and cooldown quite weak, implying that only really the accuracy boost that I have is reasonable. Are there any notable bulletins you'd recommend purchasing with supply when I build it up?


Hiya, most of those commanders should still be okay with the given meta rn. For each faction slight changes may have happened but there wasnt a big commander shift yet.

One thing to note is Elite was nerfed since that post and is not as strong as it use to be. If you want a tiger g43 doc then Lighting War is my prefered take.

Elite troops can still work though


T1 meta for soviets is back therefore Lend Lease is back. I run it now in addition to two guard or ppsh commanders.

USF is pershing/priest/recon/airborne. All 4 give you something USF lacks IE Elite infantry, heavy tank, artillery, or Support weapons without side teching.


Bulletins arent really that important anymore since they got rid of stacking. But the best currently imo are Infantry accuracy bonuses and Grenade range bulletins for all factions.

For SOV and Wehr the 5% cooldown for cons and grens are good. For sovs the accuracy for penals is good for t1 builds. Wehr has a pfaust range and mine cost reduction both with are good. (SOV has one also).

USF has 3 big ones outside the accuracy bonus. There is a vet increase for rifleman, grenade range, and The decreased reinforce and build time for REs and Rifles. this one was obtained through AA and allows riflemen to get back on the field fast which is nice. I typically run something like Rifle Accuracy, Rifle Vet, Back Bone of the Army.

OKW Volk suppression is nice. Medkit cost reduction is useful so heals dont drain ur muni from stgs.

UKF- just go all 3 Tommy bulletins.
30 Aug 2018, 20:09 PM
#9
avatar of Rosbone
Senior Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 980 | Subs: 2

I forgot to mention the MEME commanders:
SOVIETS:
URBAN DEFENSE - The most crazy OP commander of all time on city maps. Lienne Forrest you can make 2 or 3 HQs and have the enemy pinned in their base in under 10 minutes. Dont forget to make the meme at gun because you will behind in teching and will need something to stop flamer halftracks.

OST
ENCIRCLEMENT DOCTRINE
A few maps are very easy to use CLOSE THE POCKET. Redball Express, LaGleize, and coming soon Fields of Winnekendonk.

And as TheGentlemenTroll mentioned the bulletins that extend your grenade or faust distances can be game changers.
30 Aug 2018, 22:24 PM
#10
avatar of Kirrik

Posts: 559

Topic you linked still holds true
If you want to know which meta commanders to buy heres a quick rundown
Sov:
Mechanized Support (ISU+Guards)
Armored Assault (T-34-85+IS-2)
Wehr:
Jaeger Infantry
Spearhead
OKW:
Fortifications
Firestorm
Brits:
Mobile Assault
Special Weapons
USF:
Heavy Cavalry
Rifle
31 Aug 2018, 20:18 PM
#11
avatar of TheGentlemenTroll

Posts: 963 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Aug 2018, 20:09 PMRosbone
I forgot to mention the MEME commanders:
SOVIETS:
URBAN DEFENSE - The most crazy OP commander of all time on city maps. Lienne Forrest you can make 2 or 3 HQs and have the enemy pinned in their base in under 10 minutes. Dont forget to make the meme at gun because you will behind in teching and will need something to stop flamer halftracks.

OST
ENCIRCLEMENT DOCTRINE
A few maps are very easy to use CLOSE THE POCKET. Redball Express, LaGleize, and coming soon Fields of Winnekendonk.

And as TheGentlemenTroll mentioned the bulletins that extend your grenade or faust distances can be game changers.


Suicide tanks on encirclement doc cap ability on Red Ball has literally wiped an entire team of 4 off the map. Shit was insane.

Also if some idiot goes Brit sim city and u get the close the pocket on it, Brace will not save em and they will instant leave.

It also one time happened to me and I lost 3 vet 3 tommies to it on retreat. I was very sad.
1 Sep 2018, 19:33 PM
#12
avatar of Snipercam7

Posts: 32

This is awesome! Thank you very much guys, now I just need to figure out how to stop my PC taking a decade to load 4v4 matches and therefore disconnecting me. :P
10 Sep 2018, 15:27 PM
#13
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 2696 | Subs: 1

This is awesome! Thank you very much guys, now I just need to figure out how to stop my PC taking a decade to load 4v4 matches and therefore disconnecting me. :P



Learning from 4vs4 isn't going o make you any better. 4vs4 is about spaming the most efficient unit to break your opponent. You'll learn nothing from here, there is no room to flank and understand how to combine your units.

- Play 1vs1 and 2vs2 (if you really want to play teamgame), play your first 10 games to be ranked approximatly vs people at your level.

- Commanders are not that important if you are newbe, honestly they are not going to shift the balance of a match or only vs player as bad or worst than you. You just need to know you need at least one arty commander on your loadout for special cases.
In fact, you should probably start playing without paying much attention to them, and when you find a Build order you like, you complete it with a commander giving support to it.

- Build Order, Capping order, maps, units values (near-mid-far range dps) what to use when to use it is much more important to understand early on.

- Bulletin: select the 3% accuracy on your mainline infantry (which is available from the start for each faction) and complete it with whatever dedicated for it as well depending on your crate drops.

- Learn unit preservation, learn how to use covver, learn about vet, lear about different damage, learn about scouting before attacking, learn about retreat and soft retreat, how Works suppression etc... and all of this is strongly dependant of the map.


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