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Feedback for Commander Revamppatch

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11 Oct 2018, 18:25 PM
#1541
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3164 | Subs: 7


Give Grenadiers with Squad Leader upgrade the ability to throw a grenade assault (similar to that of Assault Grenadiers/Infiltration nades) in addition to all the previous benefits. This gives them additional utility/killing power as well.


I really like this idea. Better than trying to match their DPS with MG-42 Grens, as it compensates Grens' natural close range weakness. It would add more to the unique choice that infantry doctrine / VSL upgrade is supposed to be. Perhaps *some* veteran squad leader buffs would have to be reverted or toned down. Would the grenade assault replace the rifle grenade? And of course transferable G43 is still on the table.
11 Oct 2018, 19:44 PM
#1542
avatar of A. Soldier

Posts: 3094 | Subs: 2

Looking at what the Panzergrenadiers get from Squad Leaders maybe it's a better idea to tailor the abilities which are given from this instead of giving both Grenadiers and Pioneers a 5th man.

Somebody mentioned something about buffing pioneer repairs and giving them an AT rifle upgrade instead of their 5th man, maybe that would be better since I see many people here saying that 5 man flame Pioneers are too effective?

Grenadiers... I don't know, it's weird being locked out of the MG42 for some reason. So perhaps like others have suggested making the 5th man upgrade worthwhile with a Grenade Assault or something would be the best course of action.

Panzergrenadiers stay the same I suppose? I really love the fact that they can repair and get the combined arms type ability which I also suggested. 5th man I guess wouldn't hurt them but then again it would probably be downright OP.

Stormtroopers I feel like should also benefit from the upgrade somehow seeing as they're in the same doctrine but just adding a 5th man doesn't feel right.

Maybe make the Urban Assault Panzergrenadiers into an upgrade and give it to them instead?

Then you'd have the option of free MP40s, or for 40/60 or more ammo MP40s, plus a flamethrower and survival training? Or just survival training and a 5th man I don't know. but if the Pioneers get an AT rifle package making the Stormtroopers be even better close quarter combat troops sounds like a good way of tailoring the commander ability for them.

Maybe rename it to "Infantry Specialization" then? Or "Advanced Infantry Training", something along those lines sounds like a good fit for the ability.
11 Oct 2018, 20:41 PM
#1543
avatar of Kasarov
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 421 | Subs: 2

Snip


Pioneer 5-man is already more than enough for repair speed, having PzGrens also repair is overkill as there would already be better squads for the job available earlier and for cheaper.

Methinks the best way to keep the combined arms ability is to replace a lackluster ability with the Panzer IV F1 that emits a passive combined arms that applies to Panzergrenadiers. It also adds late game to the commander. I would happily give up 250 to see the PzIV Infantry Support Tank.

All in all though the Panzergrenadier stuff is uncalled for and doesn't seem to fit the infantry theme. Panzergrenadier changes tend to imply a mechanized theme: why would an infantry doctrine have better coordination with vehicles than mechanized? Transferring its ideas over to other core infantry units is the more elegant solution. In my suggestion, all of the Panzergrenadier changes have been incorporated in some way within other units with the exception of the field repair, which like I already stated is overkill.
11 Oct 2018, 22:10 PM
#1544
avatar of A. Soldier

Posts: 3094 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Oct 2018, 20:41 PMKasarov


Pioneer 5-man is already more than enough for repair speed, having PzGrens also repair is overkill as there would already be better squads for the job available earlier and for cheaper.

Methinks the best way to keep the combined arms ability is to replace a lackluster ability with the Panzer IV F1 that emits a passive combined arms that applies to Panzergrenadiers. It also adds late game to the commander. I would happily give up 250 to see the PzIV Infantry Support Tank.

All in all though the Panzergrenadier stuff is uncalled for and doesn't seem to fit the infantry theme. Panzergrenadier changes tend to imply a mechanized theme: why would an infantry doctrine have better coordination with vehicles than mechanized? Transferring its ideas over to other core infantry units is the more elegant solution. In my suggestion, all of the Panzergrenadier changes have been incorporated in some way within other units with the exception of the field repair, which like I already stated is overkill.


Ostheer is a very repair deprived Army, up until this point their sole repair capabilities were in the hands of the Pioneers and that was the end of it.

Looking at the Soviets and the amount of options they have to repair in terms of commanders makes me think that there is nothing wrong with giving options to the player.

Many people have also said that Mech Company is also overkill with the amount of light vehicles it now has and it's entirely out of the question to see all of them in a 1v1 game but that's again left up to the player.

So all in all the utility given to the PGs in the end doesn't hurt anyone really and just provides the player with some more options at his disposal. As for how it fits in the doctrine, PGs are still infantry so I guess you can say that they are entitled to get something out of the bargain, doesn't matter if they're supposed to be supporting tanks. If we're going into semantics they're also supposed to be either motorized or mechanised, meaning only coming on the field in either trucks or Halftracks which they don't.

But I agree with you about the F1 Pz IV, if you go back to about the middle pages I think you can see my suggestion of replacing the Arty officer with it as well for some additional late game presence from the commander. I had the Tiger as a suggestion before that but the F1 made more sense because it was a dedicated infantry support tank, similar to the StuG E but not exactly, plus it further added something new to the table.

Speaking of the 250 tho, would be awesome for Urban Assault Panzergrenadiers to come in it as a mechanised combat group lol.
12 Oct 2018, 01:04 AM
#1545
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 1527

Permanently Banned
Love the pgren utility on the infantry commander. 9 pop cap is overpriced and I've been saying for a long time, pgrens should have more utility since they often lose to double upgraded WFA inf with a pop of 7 or 8, and riflemen have snares, too while pgrens don't. Glad to see the bal team has listened to some suggestions.
12 Oct 2018, 08:31 AM
#1546
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3164 | Subs: 7

Just a small piece of feedback, but I think the Commissar Squad is way too cheap for the utility it offers - besides also having considerable fighting power. Especially considering something like the less useful Sturm Offizier costs 280MP.

Price should be increased to around 300-320MP, I think.
12 Oct 2018, 08:46 AM
#1547
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17633 | Subs: 9

Just a small piece of feedback, but I think the Commissar Squad is way too cheap for the utility it offers - besides also having considerable fighting power. Especially considering something like the less useful Sturm Offizier costs 280MP.

Price should be increased to around 300-320MP, I think.

Sturm officer is much more powerful(permanent AoE aura vs couple of seconds on SINGLE unit, no shared cooldowns on abilities, instantly forcing retreat vs waiting for propaganda arty and -more- fighting power).

In fact, the only thing keeping sturm officer in check from being one of most OP infantry units in game is the fact that mass retreat can happen if you micro badly.

So no, commissar squad in contrast to SO isn't in any way out of his league in terms of cost.
12 Oct 2018, 09:06 AM
#1548
avatar of Kasarov
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 421 | Subs: 2

I think the medical kits aura for Commissar just needs to be put behind a timed ability like the Medical Tommies and maybe just give them a 6-man squad from the start in exchange for a better Vet 1. In such a case, the squad should be 300mp. Tbh I felt it was kinda cheeky that they claimed it was a 5-man squad on the patch notes and when I played it, it became 6-man really quickly.
12 Oct 2018, 09:31 AM
#1549
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3164 | Subs: 7

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Oct 2018, 08:46 AMKatitof

Sturm officer is much more powerful(permanent AoE aura vs couple of seconds on SINGLE unit, no shared cooldowns on abilities, instantly forcing retreat vs waiting for propaganda arty and -more- fighting power).


SO aura is mediocre at best and getting another combat squad in its place is more effective DPS wise unless the aura is buffing more than 3-4 units at once I think (someone did the math once, can't be bothered to look it up). No shared cooldown, but the SO abilities are expensive (40MU for target squad, 60MU for forced retreat) in a doctrine/faction that desperately needs ammo for other things. Fighting power is basically nullified unless you like to see your entire army retreat every first minute into an engagement. Doesn't have free healing either and can't throw grenades.

So no, I would still argue that 240MP for the Commissar Squad is not the right price for all that it brings. At the very least it should be equal to Sturmoffizier (280MP).
12 Oct 2018, 16:40 PM
#1550
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1

Any chance the Thompson upgrade for CavRifles can be made to cost 60 Munitions, Equal to a BAR? Because you are paying 70 munitions for just two of them, 45 was too cheap but 70 is a bit over the top.
13 Oct 2018, 02:32 AM
#1551
avatar of Coh2user34

Posts: 10

Foward HQ

1: building shape - looks like not rusky. please consider using another building model... For example similar to soviet HQ or something

2: if building function of HQ is available, pls delete change to HQ function of ambient building. this is too map-dependent. if there are plenty of large concrete buildings, it becomes too OP.
13 Oct 2018, 09:17 AM
#1552
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3164 | Subs: 7

2: if building function of HQ is available, pls delete change to HQ function of ambient building. this is too map-dependent. if there are plenty of large concrete buildings, it becomes too OP.


I kinda like this idea, or to fit the ambient building FHQ to a higher CP requirement. Especially OKW has lots of trouble early game to fight FHQ as they do not have any early counters to big buildings (Ost has flame 251).
13 Oct 2018, 09:23 AM
#1553
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17633 | Subs: 9



I kinda like this idea, or to fit the ambient building FHQ to a higher CP requirement. Especially OKW has lots of trouble early game to fight FHQ as they do not have any early counters to big buildings (Ost has flame 251).

Couple of flame nades burn it, ISG comes earlier then flame 251, there is always stuka that will level it completely.

Counters are there.
They are just not the same.
13 Oct 2018, 10:26 AM
#1554
avatar of kanon

Posts: 50

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Oct 2018, 09:23 AMKatitof

Couple of flame nades burn it, ISG comes earlier then flame 251, there is always stuka that will level it completely.

Counters are there.
They are just not the same.

gl destroying a stone wall building HQ with Leigs and flame nades Kappa
13 Oct 2018, 12:19 PM
#1555
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3164 | Subs: 7

Yeah and also good luck using a Stuka. It can take up to 4 barrages (and lucky RNG to hit more than 1 rocket per barrage) to kill the bigger houses. The FHQ is usually used early to block resources, so getting that 100 fuel would take forever anyway. Which is why I specifically mentioned OKW has no early counters. ISGs take absolutely forever to kill large stone buildings. Flame nades take 5 or 6 to kill stone buildings so that's pretty much out of the question early game, too. For ISGs you have to be lucky to have gone Battlegroup, too.

OKW's early 'counters' are shit.

13 Oct 2018, 14:40 PM
#1556
avatar of Luciano

Posts: 712

I feel like the lefh doesnt fit the overwatch commander, honestly i feel a bit sad that sector assault got removed, and the new lefh direct shot ability feels a pretty bit trashy imo. Also limiting sturmtiger with kt <- yikes

Also, no one tought that the new vehicle detection ability on the 223 is going to be GIGA OP, 85 radious of detection on a small map like most 1v1s will be like a constant maphack, manouvers with vehicles will be imposible with this thing constantly preventing the movements, imo it should be a timed ability, or consume munitions when active
13 Oct 2018, 14:45 PM
#1557
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 1527

Permanently Banned
Havent tried LeFH yet, so does it still have counterbarrage or is it replaced with direct shot
13 Oct 2018, 18:21 PM
#1558
avatar of JibberJabberJobber

Posts: 1602 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Oct 2018, 14:40 PMLuciano
...

Also, no one tought that the new vehicle detection ability on the 223 is going to be GIGA OP, 85 radious of detection on a small map like most 1v1s will be like a constant maphack, manouvers with vehicles will be imposible with this thing constantly preventing the movements, imo it should be a timed ability, or consume munitions when active


Honestly, this whole patch seems to suffer from feature creep. Take the M42 or stormtroopers for example.
13 Oct 2018, 20:43 PM
#1559
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3164 | Subs: 7

Havent tried LeFH yet, so does it still have counterbarrage or is it replaced with direct shot


-Veterancy 1-3 now matches its Ostheer counterpart
-Veterancy 4 reduces Counter Barrage reload time between shots by 60%
-Veterancy 5 - Allows single fire direct shot up to 50m

So counterbarrage is there at vet1, gets improved at vet4, and then at vet5 it gains the additional ability of direct shot. Which is a bad ability honestly.
13 Oct 2018, 21:54 PM
#1560
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660

Yeah and also good luck using a Stuka. It can take up to 4 barrages (and lucky RNG to hit more than 1 rocket per barrage) to kill the bigger houses. The FHQ is usually used early to block resources, so getting that 100 fuel would take forever anyway. Which is why I specifically mentioned OKW has no early counters. ISGs take absolutely forever to kill large stone buildings. Flame nades take 5 or 6 to kill stone buildings so that's pretty much out of the question early game, too. For ISGs you have to be lucky to have gone Battlegroup, too.

OKW's early 'counters' are shit.


Suggested long ago that stuka should fire 6 rockets in a circular area with a second of cooldown between each rocket, to punish static position and counter buildings but give a chance to retreat (instead of playing the "guess what line did i just draw" game), and to put it at 75 fuel like any rocket arty so it becomes accessible as an mg spam counter.

But the priority seems "fixing stuff" as always, without caring of this being viable or not after the "fix"
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