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(6) Oka River Frontline

2 Aug 2018, 02:57 AM
#1
avatar of Rosbone
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A prominent community member has requested this map get looked at. Here is my assessment:
(6) Oka River Frontline (v1)

This map favors the north a little. The main problem is the river. Most of the fighting takes place on the west side of the map in a 2v2 format. North has to cross the river to get to the west. South does not. There is no cover on the river and late game it can become impassable. There were also a couple garrisons that over looked the river so south could put MGs and North is pinned in their base.

1. Moved the south munition to the east side of the map. Now there are equal resources on each side of the river. Two VPs remain on the west.


2. Moved the right VP garrisons so that building A contest building 1. Building B contests building 2. The sheds have one door (BLUE line) and sight blockers so North/South attacks are negated (not possible).


3. The middle VP is closer to the south. It was moved as much as possible to get it balanced with the terrain. The South also had better access to the area from the road. The road was also a dead zone of red cover. Going on the road was treacherous at best. It was also annoying trying to move back and forth from the west to middle VP. So a hole(BLUE) was added to the cemetary at the middle building. This allows the the road to be used more for flanking and to quickly gain access to the new shed position. Sight blocker hide the shed from the west buildings.


4. Building 1 was moved away from the left VP so that it mirrored building 2 better for coverage. Several new opening were made so you can play the game and not try to solve a maze puzzle :)


The minimap in the unpacked files was bizarre so that was punched up as well.

Cheers
2 Aug 2018, 11:57 AM
#2
avatar of Sturmpanther
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Yo,
I guess you meant favours south or?

Point 1. I Disagree. Let it as it was. This map is one of the best 3vs3 maps. Because you really have a 1vs1 and a 2vs2 at the same time. But you still can flank and help the other side for a short time ( walking to cutoff)
It would be unfair for the 1vs1 right side north side, not to have a muni there.
On the left side both 2vs2 should be always able to hold atleast their muni point.

Point 2. ok

Point 3. new path is fine, BUT i see you just moved the VP more to right side right? This helps north side? when you change it on the X- axis and not on the Y-axis?
Also this house:
https://prnt.sc/kds0z4
I would have no problem to just remove it completed tbh! And change the cover south side or north side. Atm north side has green cover, and south side only yellow.


Point 4 ok


New point- 5 Point: Is there a chance that you change the river? Make north side near the base left side snowland and right side the river? So for the 1vs1 right side is the river?
2 Aug 2018, 17:30 PM
#3
avatar of Rosbone
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Yo,
I guess you meant favours south or?

Yes favors the south :gimpy: The main goal was to get around the issue with the river.

1) The problems I see with the map:
- IT HAS TO BE a 2v2 left and 1v1 right. Boring. By having similar resources, teams can choose the side they want.
- Late game the river can be destroyed leaving North to be isolated from the city. Just make arty pieces and destroy the river. GG. With similar resources, disconnecting the south = disconnecting the north.

3) If the VP moves North/South it will be unbalanced with the cover at the perimeter of the cemetary. So it was moved North-East. In many instances the actual distance to the point does not matter, the distance to the cover matters. For instance the center Church is more important than the fuel/VP distances. So I moved it as far as I could.

I would have no problem to just remove it completed tbh! And change the cover south side or north side. Atm north side has green cover, and south side only yellow.
There were buildings there already so I tried to leave one in, but place it in a way to make it fun to play around. It will give good MG coverage North/South. It is sight blocked to the middle VP. And the new opening makes it very easy to flank. So you can take it for a quick advantage but you do not want to camp in it or you will eat a grenade. North side has more green cover: Truck and grave stones. South has a water trough(bath tub) for green cover. Could remove the truck and trough. The building also adds a sight blocker for the cemetary so you can retreat vehicles etc after engagements.


5) I would love to make a crossing on the river but it would ruin the look of the map. I made a version with bridges and it looked...weird? And you gain a solid crossing point but lose a little river crossing area due to the hills needed for the bridge.
Other options would be make land bridges like in Rzhev winter. A large river would allow for boats in reality so I thought a regular bridge would look the most realistic.
The bridge should actually be more of an angle and more south so units travel on it coming out of the base area.





2 Aug 2018, 17:58 PM
#4
avatar of MajorBloodnok
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Deep snow on the RHS sectors?:unsure: (Needs to go, IMO)
2 Aug 2018, 18:09 PM
#5
avatar of nigo
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Posts: 2010 | Subs: 17

Stone bridges will destroy the atmosphere in this map.
2 Aug 2018, 18:32 PM
#6
avatar of Rosbone
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Posts: 711 | Subs: 2

Deep snow on the RHS sectors?:unsure: (Needs to go, IMO)

I am not sure what you mean but there are no DEEP snow areas (Shows as RED in worldbuilder). There is a small DEEP snow section off map to the left (GREEN arrow).
2 Aug 2018, 20:45 PM
#7
avatar of Sturmpanther
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Posts: 4405 | Subs: 13

Deep snow on the RHS sectors?:unsure: (Needs to go, IMO)


?
There should be no deep snow on any maps anymore. Feel free to give screenshot with the opposite.
2 Aug 2018, 20:47 PM
#8
avatar of Sturmpanther
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Posts: 4405 | Subs: 13





Point1. Thats the point in this map. About 2vs2 and 1vs1. Its special gamestyle on this map.
If people hate to play a 1vs1 in a 3vs3 for a short time. They can veto the map tbh^^.


Point 3. Ok then let the house in.
BUT the small water green cover thing is nothing vs the big car green cover. You can't really protec their 6 cons vs mg, like on the car. So this has to get changed in anyway.

Point5.
No Bridge!
And sadly to hear about that river change to right side would look ugly. I had already this bad feeling.
3 Aug 2018, 01:17 AM
#9
avatar of Rosbone
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Point1. Thats the point in this map. About 2vs2 and 1vs1. Its special gamestyle on this map.
If people hate to play a 1vs1 in a 3vs3 for a short time. They can veto the map tbh^^.

I get your point :p

As I described in Whiteflashs new Nexus thread, a good map gives the player options. Crossroads has extra points so you do not have to push in one direction. If left looks bad, then go right. It is that simple. Stick your head thru the sight blockers and it looks good, then keep going. Else fall back behind the sight blockers to safety and try a different strategy.

Moving the Munition to the right gives the players options. They can double up the left side or the right side. Then push into the middle. It opens up new strategy possibilties.

But as usual, it is just you and I thinking about it. We need a tie breaker (as if my say had any value).
:P

4 Aug 2018, 04:28 AM
#10
avatar of Rosbone
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Updated but still v1 :P

(6) Oka Rosbone (v1)

1. Munition placed back on left side.

2. For the east, I Focused on the church too much. The buildings around it (1,2) are balanced at about 218m to each base. The right side is now balanced as well with buildings (1,2). The right side distances are close to 230m with building 1 still farther away from north base by a few meters. Buildings 1+2 were spaced apart so the will not interact with each other. They act more as a line-in-the-sand fall back position. They both cover the fuel. Buildings 1+2 were rotated so each has 3 windows facing the fuel. They both can be attacked by the sheds nearby.
3. Cover around the VP was better balanced moving the truck to the approx center.



4. Cleaned up the cemetary area. Removing the truck seemed best. Added a few more headstones so there is splattered green cover everywhere.


5. Smoothed out a lot of hills. They were everywhere.

6. Opened a path by the river so North can access the southern cutoff. Matched the distance with the northern cutoff.


4 Aug 2018, 08:02 AM
#11
avatar of Sturmpanther
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Posts: 4405 | Subs: 13

Updated but still v1 :P

(6) Oka Rosbone (v1)

1. Munition placed back on left side.

2. For the east, I Focused on the church too much. The buildings around it (1,2) are balanced at about 218m to each base. The right side is now balanced as well with buildings (1,2). The right side distances are close to 230m with building 1 still farther away from north base by a few meters. Buildings 1+2 were spaced apart so the will not interact with each other. They act more as a line-in-the-sand fall back position. They both cover the fuel. Buildings 1+2 were rotated so each has 3 windows facing the fuel. They both can be attacked by the sheds nearby.
3. Cover around the VP was better balanced moving the truck to the approx center.



4. Cleaned up the cemetary area. Removing the truck seemed best. Added a few more headstones so there is splattered green cover everywhere.


5. Smoothed out a lot of hills. They were everywhere.

6. Opened a path by the river so North can access the southern cutoff. Matched the distance with the northern cutoff.



:thumbsup:
8 Aug 2018, 12:23 PM
#12
avatar of Sturmpanther
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Pls don't change/ reworking things without putting the changes here in!!!

What I just found today out:

1. https://prnt.sc/kg68md
Why?

2. https://prnt.sc/kg68rx
Why?

3. https://prnt.sc/kg68rxhttp://prntscr.com/kg6aop
Fine for me.

Another topic:
4.South side can stand both time in green cover and cap the fuel. North side can only 1 time stand in cover while capping.
https://prnt.sc/kg68gx
I mean anyway this green cover favours north side alot. Because its directly facing the south building.
When you play from south side, the nnorth truck does not really help you vs the left or right building.

5. Just from look and maybe for people, who wants to play custom with cold tech on it:
- Left vp
- Middle vp
- left fuel
are missing a fire.
( tho i have to say i don't really care^^. Just wanted to say, that i know about this.)




8 Aug 2018, 18:35 PM
#13
avatar of Rosbone
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Posts: 711 | Subs: 2

Sorry, my first pass on the map is to change stuff until I feel it warrants updating the map. :foreveralone:


What I just found today out:

1. https://prnt.sc/kg68md
Why?

- This was supposed to be part of change (6) on post #10 to balance the cutoffs. I missed it.
- The cutoff TP was moved back to mirror distance for same south point cutoff. South was 139m north was 163m. North TP had easy access from river, south did not.
- The small shed was replaced with windowed shed to mirror the south. The "LIVE" shed had NO windows facing south. Heavily favors south team.
- Soviet tractor moved south to mirror truck on the south. Truck was also located in a place to leave some room for trucks, ambulances, HQs, etc.



2. https://prnt.sc/kg68rx
Why?

- The TP was moved to mirror the point by the VP on the right side. South distance to left TP = 205m. North distance to right TP = 248m. Fence was opened to allow closer access to the TP for the south.


Another topic:
4.South side can stand both time in green cover and cap the fuel. North side can only 1 time stand in cover while capping.
https://prnt.sc/kg68gx
I mean anyway this green cover favours north side alot. Because its directly facing the south building.
When you play from south side, the nnorth truck does not really help you vs the left or right building.

OPT 1) We can move the south truck to give the same coverage.
OPT 2) Change the size of the capping area.
OPT 3) Remove trucks.


5. Just from look and maybe for people, who wants to play custom with cold tech on it:
- Left vp
- Middle vp
- left fuel
are missing a fire.
( tho i have to say i don't really care^^. Just wanted to say, that i know about this.)

- will add more fires :P
8 Aug 2018, 19:39 PM
#14
avatar of Sturmpanther
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Posts: 4405 | Subs: 13

Sorry, my first pass on the map is to change stuff until I feel it warrants updating the map. :foreveralone:


- This was supposed to be part of change (6) on post #10 to balance the cutoffs. I missed it.
- The cutoff TP was moved back to mirror distance for same south point cutoff. South was 139m north was 163m. North TP had easy access from river, south did not.
- The small shed was replaced with windowed shed to mirror the south. The "LIVE" shed had NO windows facing south. Heavily favors south team.
- Soviet tractor moved south to mirror truck on the south. Truck was also located in a place to leave some room for trucks, ambulances, HQs, etc.



- The TP was moved to mirror the point by the VP on the right side. South distance to left TP = 205m. North distance to right TP = 248m. Fence was opened to allow closer access to the TP for the south.


OPT 1) We can move the south truck to give the same coverage.
OPT 2) Change the size of the capping area.
OPT 3) Remove trucks.


- will add more fires :P


1. hm it looks so strange for me, playing all the time on the old cutoff and cover system. Because all the fences and cover are now without a strategypoint.
Also don't forget there is now a new path to attack the south cutoffpoint.
Maybe somehow a mix between live and reworked version? So that the fences and co are not complete alone?


2. Ignore right side. The only question is:
How far is it from north side to the muni and how far it is from south to their muni?
I would say it should be kind of equal in the live version or not? Also then the 2 houses fights action is useless as fuck. So when its in anyway almost balanced i want the old muni point left side.
In case change the norther muni points few meters.

4.
Option 1 or 2.

And time is running away^^
8 Aug 2018, 23:57 PM
#15
avatar of Rosbone
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Posts: 711 | Subs: 2


1. hm it looks so strange for me, playing all the time on the old cutoff and cover system. Because all the fences and cover are now without a strategypoint.
Also don't forget there is now a new path to attack the south cutoffpoint.
Maybe somehow a mix between live and reworked version? So that the fences and co are not complete alone?

2. Ignore right side. The only question is:
How far is it from north side to the muni and how far it is from south to their muni?
I would say it should be kind of equal in the live version or not? Also then the 2 houses fights action is useless as fuck. So when its in anyway almost balanced i want the old muni point left side.
In case change the norther muni points few meters.

New version uploaded to steam.

Everything in one picture time:

1. The cutoff changes make sense when you look from overhead. Houses (BLACK 1,2) mirror each other. Tractor mirrors truck (GREEN lines). Cemetary fences (YELLOW lines). The cutoffs can be flanked from the river(BLUE arrows) around the impassable areas (RED)

2. To get the balance correct for the MUNI points each point needed to move. South moved closer to base. North moved further from base.
House (AQUA 1) ws moved closer to munition to mirror south houses (AQUA 3,4). North house is small so the green cover tractor was left close to its original position to help balance buildings (AQUA 1,2).

3. The EAST side of the map points were adjusted for distance balance (WHITE arrows).

9 Aug 2018, 13:12 PM
#16
avatar of Sturmpanther
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Posts: 4405 | Subs: 13


New version uploaded to steam.

Everything in one picture time:

1. The cutoff changes make sense when you look from overhead. Houses (BLACK 1,2) mirror each other. Tractor mirrors truck (GREEN lines). Cemetary fences (YELLOW lines). The cutoffs can be flanked from the river(BLUE arrows) around the impassable areas (RED)

2. To get the balance correct for the MUNI points each point needed to move. South moved closer to base. North moved further from base.
House (AQUA 1) ws moved closer to munition to mirror south houses (AQUA 3,4). North house is small so the green cover tractor was left close to its original position to help balance buildings (AQUA 1,2).

3. The EAST side of the map points were adjusted for distance balance (WHITE arrows).



green.
9 Aug 2018, 20:06 PM
#17
avatar of Rosbone
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Posts: 711 | Subs: 2

Final version posted to steam as (6) Oka River Winter

*Note five right side houses moved from original.
11 Aug 2018, 21:14 PM
#18
avatar of Rosbone
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Posts: 711 | Subs: 2

Deep snow on the RHS sectors?:unsure: (Needs to go, IMO)

I stand corrected. There were two small sections on the right side that appeared to be deep snow.

In the worldbuilder any snow greater than a depth of .25 is shown as DEEP SNOW and appears RED. So .251 will draw as red in the worldbuilder. Snow less than .251 will be drawn as yellow(Left side of picture).

However in the game .250 is indicated as deep snow with the snowflake mouse cursor. This map had several areas at exactly .250. Only two were in normal playing areas and they were small.

Using the TERRAIN COVER overlay (right side of picture) you can see the deep snow areas (RED Checker areas).
13 Aug 2018, 20:00 PM
#19
avatar of Tric
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Posts: 1262 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Aug 2018, 21:14 PMRosbone

I stand corrected. There were two small sections on the right side that appeared to be deep snow.

In the worldbuilder any snow greater than a depth of .25 is shown as DEEP SNOW and appears RED. So .251 will draw as red in the worldbuilder. Snow less than .251 will be drawn as yellow(Left side of picture).

However in the game .250 is indicated as deep snow with the snowflake mouse cursor. This map had several areas at exactly .250. Only two were in normal playing areas and they were small.

Using the TERRAIN COVER overlay (right side of picture) you can see the deep snow areas (RED Checker areas).


Yup. It is why for everything you go -.25 less than what works. I do the same for water, or this happens. We learned this the hard way with Verman River for Talisman and ice.
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