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russian armor

Panther

4 Feb 2018, 12:48 PM
#1
avatar of Lago

Posts: 2719

What's this unit's role these days? I used to think it was a tank destroyer but on reflection I'm not sure what it's for now.

  • It has poor anti-infantry performance which suggests it isn't a late-game generalist tank like the Comet.
  • It's countered by the cheaper Jackson and Firefly which suggests it's not a late game tank destroyer.


It seems to be a slightly awkward cross between a tank destroyer and a generalist: it beats generalist tanks and has some mediocre anti-infantry capability that tank destroyers lack entirely but it struggles against a proper tank destroyer. A Tiger can do that and does well against infantry for a similar price when you factor in tech.

Is the Panther a non-doctrinal but inferior Tiger substitute or is there a useful role for it I've missed?
4 Feb 2018, 13:12 PM
#2
avatar of some one

Posts: 912

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Feb 2018, 12:48 PMLago
It has poor anti-infantry performance which suggests it isn't a late-game generalist tank like the Comet.


There is a video on youtube . Thier anti infantry capability absolutly similar
4 Feb 2018, 13:14 PM
#3
avatar of Colonel0tto
Donator 11

Posts: 89

It's the most heavily armoured medium tank in the game that's also fast and has a pintle mount mg. It'll never do the job of AT as well as massed stugs or a jp4 but the difference is that it can go and quickly support an attack at the side of the map without being in too much danger of dying or being caught out.

It's a really nice addition to late game axis combined arms when you already have dangerous and useful infantry in addition to at least one tank destroyer (stug or jp4). I've seen a lot of games thrown by axis players recently because they refuse to go panther and instead go for p4s (brutally countered by late game allied tanks) or a king tiger (very slow and easily countered).

The main problem with it is that it requires more micro than people think. To get reliable shots you have to get it into a flanking position and halt to fire. People also assume that as a late game tank it's supposed to instantly have a massive impact on the game and wipe something. They don't think about using it to consistently damage tanks before going in for a timing attack. Getting vet on a panther is also extremely valuable as it fires much faster at vet 3.
4 Feb 2018, 13:17 PM
#4
4 Feb 2018, 13:31 PM
#5
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066



This is from October of 2015. This isn't relevant anymore unfortunately..
4 Feb 2018, 14:20 PM
#6
avatar of ferwiner
Donator 11

Posts: 2885



This is from October of 2015. This isn't relevant anymore unfortunately..


As far as firepower goes panther recived only buffs and comet only nerfs since 2015. Or am I missing something?
4 Feb 2018, 15:57 PM
#8
avatar of Lago

Posts: 2719

I'm not looking for changes to the Panther, otherwise this'd be in the balance forum. What I'm after is how and when to use it as is.
4 Feb 2018, 16:03 PM
#9
avatar of adamírcz

Posts: 675 | Subs: 1

Its meant to counter shermans, cromwells and T34s, while getting countered by other TDs
4 Feb 2018, 16:29 PM
#10
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066



As far as firepower goes panther recived only buffs and comet only nerfs since 2015. Or am I missing something?


No it hasn't. It has been significantly nerfed this latest patch too. Firepower is nice, but if you constantly miss or shoot once ever solar eclipse, you won't put out much damage. The comet is decent now, not the mini tiger it used to be but still decent.
4 Feb 2018, 16:30 PM
#11
avatar of ferwiner
Donator 11

Posts: 2885



No it hasn't. It has been significantly nerfed this latest patch too. Firepower is nice, but if you constantly miss or shoot once ever solar eclipse, you won't put out much damage. The comet is decent now, not the mini tiger it used to be but still decent.


This patch is RoF buff and armour nerf. Which means it should kill infantry faster.
4 Feb 2018, 17:09 PM
#12
avatar of zarok47

Posts: 570

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Feb 2018, 13:17 PMsome one


Neither yellow cover nor veterancy for the enemy squads (or even something close to resembling an actual match scenario).

Guess which tank's AI is worse vs that?

4 Feb 2018, 18:35 PM
#13
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 2690

It's funny how every thread with the word "panther" in it instantly turns into a balance discussion.
4 Feb 2018, 18:40 PM
#14
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 1510

Panther is in a good spot. Fair pop cap. Generalist tank. You are all axis fanboys!!!!!!!
4 Feb 2018, 20:38 PM
#15
avatar of Jae For Jett
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 924 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Feb 2018, 15:57 PMLago
I'm not looking for changes to the Panther, otherwise this'd be in the balance forum. What I'm after is how and when to use it as is.

Use it when you need durable AT. Its usually best when you have a lead and want to make sure you dont throw your advantage. JP4s actually do the "destroyer" part of tank dedtroyer better, but theyre more vulnerable to getting dove and also cant dive for kills. This means that with a panther, you can close out a kill on enemy mediums with relatively low risk with its speed and armor. And to reiterate on a previous point, if youre ahead and you get a jp4, the enemy can destroy it and get back into the game with one good flank. That kind of comeback play is significantly harder against a panther.

In general, the panther offers you initiative (as opposed to the passive role of other tank destroyers; you can actively seek and get tank kills with it), resistance to throwing (with its durability and speed making it a safe choice), and a lower micro requirement.
4 Feb 2018, 22:33 PM
#16
avatar of Lago

Posts: 2719

That makes a lot of sense for OKW. What about Ostheer?
4 Feb 2018, 23:04 PM
#17
avatar of Jae For Jett
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 924 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Feb 2018, 22:33 PMLago
That makes a lot of sense for OKW. What about Ostheer?

Not too well versed in ostheer, so take this with a grain of salt.

One time to consider it is when you've gone osttruppen. The lmg42 unlock is a large enough incentive in itself to tech battle phase 3. At that point, you might as well construct t4. Since you've already constructed t4, you can then construct the panther if any of the previous stuff I described about the okw panther is desirable.

If you haven't went osttruppen, then theres usually not much of an incentive to go t4. Still, panthers do well against the pershing specifically, which may be a large enough reason to pay for the tech. The pershing (unlike the is2, kv, or churchill; the only other allied heavies) is fast enough to get away from stugs, so the panther, like stated before, gives you the ability to close out a kill on it (which is pretty essential, considering how insane the pershing gets at vet3). Stugs are also pretty vulnerable to the pershing considering they die to two hits + an HVAP shot; because of this, the pershing can usually engage double stugs, take out one of them, then get away. In other words, the panther is probably the best full counter to the pershing and the main reason to get one as ostheer.

Another time to get the ostheer panther is when heavy battle lines have formed. Using stugs when the enemy has AT gun walls is a lot harder to pull off; stugs and panthers have the same range anyway. Things like the brummbar, panzerwerfer, and panther all function significantly better against defensive positions than the t3 options do, giving you a reason to tech up.

tl;dr: there needs to be sufficient incentive to tech up to t4 outside of panthers (unless the enemy has a pershing; then you can tech up solely for the panther), then you consider the stuff in my previous post to decide whether or not to get the panther
4 Feb 2018, 23:08 PM
#18
avatar of Lago

Posts: 2719

That also makes a lot of sense. Thanks.
8 Feb 2018, 23:47 PM
#19
avatar of DerKuhlmann

Posts: 230

If you won early and middle game, you can build a panther and secure the game.
I usually get to build it at the time the tiger unlocks and those 2 crush everything together.
21 Mar 2018, 18:30 PM
#20
avatar of sinthe

Posts: 414



This patch is RoF buff and armour nerf. Which means it should kill infantry faster.


the Rof buff was for the main gun. It's now more vulnerable to handheld AT and therefore less effective against infantry.
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