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Why some Russians hate COH2 [BadComedian]

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1 Aug 2013, 22:16 PM
#21
avatar of WiFiDi
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Posts: 3293

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Aug 2013, 21:03 PMWiFiDi
this argument is flawed in many ways and often time misleading. most if not all aren't backed by facts just assumptions like "the soviet union wouldn't do that" his job is prove to me that with facts him telling me they didn't isn't enough. there are more things i could point out but that is really all that needs to be said.

oh wait one more thing :)...


heres a good video debunking a tv series (ancient aliens). this is how a video like this should be done (warning its 3 hours long.)


however some of it was pretty well rounded. also note this is made by different developers in charge. the original ones are gone or left.


edited my post after watching it again when i was more awake. yea im disappointed people actually bought this crap. there are no facts to be found or maybe 1 or 2 but they don't prove his argument unfortunately.

also this is a very small part of the war not the whole war itself. also oh no someone doesn't believe the russians are holy saviors of the world. (as Russian/soviet union propaganda would have you believe. not that any nation really is.)

(actually i rewrote the whole thing. :P except for the video.)
1 Aug 2013, 22:18 PM
#22
avatar of Cyridius

Posts: 627

Another title would be; Why people hate Russians
1 Aug 2013, 22:20 PM
#23
avatar of scratchedpaintjob
Donator 11

Posts: 1020 | Subs: 1

I have to admit, even though the video is trying to draw things in the opposite direction in an exaggerated way, there are a few points that are true. I can at least understand why russians might feel offended to some extend.


why might they feel offended? fact is, that this is a correct portray of a SMALL part of WW2. no need to be offended. its just that after 45 years of sowjetish propaganda about this war (and keep in mind, that propaganda still goes on with putin) most russians dont seem to know that much about their history.
1 Aug 2013, 22:22 PM
#24
avatar of Symbiosis

Posts: 862

About the title, in the end, the main character is very much portrayed as a hollywood hero which pretty much still justifies the name Company of Heroes. In classic story structures, the hero always has to make a sacrifice to achieve his goal. In this case the sacrifice is the gulag. Yet he eventually achieves his goal in showing how bad his commander and his decisions are, and that's what it's about. And the bad commander eventually changes and becomes 'good' by not executing Lev which might even suggest that the Soviet army is a better place/army at the end. And the men who died during the war are still portrayed as heroes during almost the whole campaign, their commander is just not.

Also, Bad Comedian is completely biased too in picking some parts of the campaign. He completely ignores the parts where the Russian soldiers actually act like a company of heroes; saving the civilians in M01, saving their commander in a heroic counter attack in another mission etc.
1 Aug 2013, 22:27 PM
#25
avatar of The_rEd_bEar

Posts: 760

"what he wrote in his diary like a small girl"

in fact, the guy making this video seems to be a small girl
"the harder the enemy, the more glorious the war" he tells us. what an fu**ing idiot. sry guys. (amdins plz edit if too harsh)

and yes, only russians had the doctrin of sacrificing MILLIONS of soldiers to stop the german advance. maybe german ss did the same, but they were just a small part and not even real wehrmacht.

burn houses--> never heard of scorched earth?

man, this guy is so dumb nd knows nothing about WW2 at all. yes, the winter was the thing to stop the germans.

american GIs could retreat, but sowjet soldiers under order 227 could NOT retreat. that is the difference.

"company of pussies in the basement" WTF?! guys, im really trying to watch this video through, but this guy looks like a pussy himselve, still acts like he would kill whole wehrmacht with his bare hands.

saving the main character from the building was one of the missions that showed the bravoury of the sowjet soldiers. this guy complains, that the germans didnt see him. really :(

he didnt even read grossmans book and still complains. i mean, i havent red it aswell, but HE is complaining.

this guys is mad.





Actually the soviets didn't have the doctrine of "sacrificing millions of soldiers to stop the German advance" human waves don't work ,ww1 taught that. They were used early in the war because the soviets were desperate to brake out of pockets. If that's what the soviets used during the war they would have lost, thats common sense.
If you think winter is the only thing that stopped the German advance you might want to brush up on you're history.
He wasn't upset over scorched earth, he was upset over burning houses WITH CIVILIANS IN THEM, which is what the Germans were known for doing. Your attempt to separate the SS from the Heer is futile they both committed war crimes, but so did the Svoiets, Americans, and British. Order 227 was extremely unpopular was never really enforced, blocking detachments were often made up of the worst soldiers and they were out numbered and could not enforce an entire soviet division and so were ineffective. Oh,and it was repealed in 1943. As a matter in fact you were most likely sent to a penal battalion then to be shot under 227. also he is pissed that after the soldiers saved the officer (a major I might add) the commissar shot one of them and ordered the others shot. Edited for grammar and stuff.
1 Aug 2013, 22:27 PM
#26
avatar of OnkelSam
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why might they feel offended? fact is, that this is a correct portray of a SMALL part of WW2. no need to be offended. its just that after 45 years of sowjetish propaganda about this war (and keep in mind, that propaganda still goes on with putin) most russians dont seem to know that much about their history.

I am not saying that all his points are valid.

But, if you don't take CoH2 as an isolated game and put it into the context of its prequels, you will notice that the focus has shifted. Americans, Brits, in all of their campaigns the heroes have been highlighted. Now in the sequel which is still called "company of heroes" the focus is on scorched earth, order 227, war crime. This is something i wouldn't want to see as a russian either. No matter the political situation...

edit:
On the other hand, saying that Relic speaks in the name of Göbbels, calling them "Reich" or giving them swastika logos is in no way acceptable either.
1 Aug 2013, 22:33 PM
#27
avatar of Dmeets

Posts: 69

/Sighhh another thread...
2 of 3 Relic postsRelic 1 Aug 2013, 22:34 PM
#28
avatar of Noun

Posts: 454 | Subs: 9

The thread should be titled "Why Some Russians..."

That's like saying American's hate video games because of Jack Thompson and the people he represents.

To say any one piece of media, or opinion, represents an entire country diminishes the views of a lot of people.
1 Aug 2013, 22:36 PM
#29
avatar of scratchedpaintjob
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Posts: 1020 | Subs: 1


Actually the soviets didn't have the doctrine of "sacrificing millions of soldiers to stop the German advance" human waves don't work ,ww1 taught that. They were used early in the war because the soviets were desperate to brake out of pockets.
so they had this doctrine. not during the full war, but still.

If you think winter is the only thing that stopped the German advance you might want to brush up on you're history.
it was not the only thing, but it was a major factor.

Your attempt to separate the S from the Heer is futile they both committed war crimes, but so did the Svoiets, Americans, and British.

i just wanted to say, that only ss had this "do not retreat"-doctrin

Order 227 was extremely unpopular was never really enforced, blocking detachments were often made of of the worst soldiers and they were out numbered and could not enforce and entire soviet division and so were ineffective. Oh and it was repealed in 1943. As a matter in fact you were most likely sent to a penal battalion then to be shot under 227.

well, order 227 was existing.


also he is pissed that after the soldiers saved the officer (a major I might add) the commissar shot one of them and ordered the others shot.

yeah, but i think, that this is quite senseful. leaving your place is a major danger!

he might be right in one or two cases, but overall he is completely wrong!
1 Aug 2013, 22:40 PM
#30
avatar of GeneralCH

Posts: 419

Badcomedian is complaining about stereotypes of western media and relic about soviets, but uses stereotypes about "nazis" all the time. This doesnt work.
1 Aug 2013, 22:40 PM
#31
avatar of scratchedpaintjob
Donator 11

Posts: 1020 | Subs: 1


But, if you don't take CoH2 as an isolated game and put it into the context of its prequels, you will notice that the focus has shifted. This is something i wouldn't want to see as a russian either. No matter the political situation...

you are right, but still, the americans didnt do any major wracrimes in europe. i mean, hiroshiam and nagasaki were BIG warcrimes, but those are pacific.
1 Aug 2013, 22:44 PM
#32
avatar of GeneralCH

Posts: 419


you are right, but still, the americans didnt do any major wracrimes in europe. i mean, hiroshiam and nagasaki were BIG warcrimes, but those are pacific.

What about shooting german prisoners and raping women? :P
3 of 3 Relic postsRelic 1 Aug 2013, 22:47 PM
#33
avatar of Noun

Posts: 454 | Subs: 9


you are right, but still, the americans didnt do any major wracrimes in europe. i mean, hiroshiam and nagasaki were BIG warcrimes, but those are pacific.



There has constantly been a lively debate in the US, and other nations, about the morality of the use of the atomic bombs. I think that sort of thing is healthy, having this be out in the open and part of public discourse is healthy.
1 Aug 2013, 22:52 PM
#34
avatar of scratchedpaintjob
Donator 11

Posts: 1020 | Subs: 1


What about shooting german prisoners and raping women? :P

:P those were single soldiers :) i think you understand what i meant

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Aug 2013, 22:47 PMNoun

There has constantly been a lively debate in the US, and other nations, about the morality of the use of the atomic bombs. I think that sort of thing is healthy, having this be out in the open and part of public discourse is healthy.

as a german, i have to affirm this! history should be taught to avoid to do mistakes again.

unfortunately, it seems to me, that the sowjet union didnt do a very good job in knowing their history...
1 Aug 2013, 23:01 PM
#35
avatar of BuzzCutPsycho

Posts: 72

On the Eastern Front many would argue that the Germans were the lesser of the two evils.

An ideal outcome to WW2 would have been the complete and utter destruction of both the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany.

With that being said I find the amount of Russian "people" who are ignorant of their own history to be laughable.
1 Aug 2013, 23:01 PM
#36
avatar of GeneralCH

Posts: 419

After finishing watching the video i have to agree in one thing: Adding atrocities of WW2 into the game, which is called "Company of heroes", wasnt a good idea. Thats what Coh1 avoided to do.
1 Aug 2013, 23:05 PM
#37
avatar of scratchedpaintjob
Donator 11

Posts: 1020 | Subs: 1

After finishing watching the video i have to agree in one thing: Adding atrocities of WW2 into the game, which is called "Company of heroes", wasnt a good idea. Thats what Coh1 avoided to do.


leaving them out would have been even worse. eastern front was the front of sacrifices, KZs, gulags, men freezing to death. western front wasnt that harsh. it was more about a normal war, if war can be normal.
1 Aug 2013, 23:11 PM
#38
avatar of The_rEd_bEar

Posts: 760

On the Eastern Front many would argue that the Germans were the lesser of the two evils.

An ideal outcome to WW2 would have been the complete and utter destruction of both the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany.

With that being said I find the amount of Russian "people" who are ignorant of their own history to be laughable.


I fail to see how and invader with the goal of racial genocide is the "lesser than two evils",but fine. You do have a point, but is are (the western) view on soviet history any better? We tend to look down on them for things they done, we don't have a clean track record either. This game was just better off leaving the war crimes out. It is a video game after all.
1 Aug 2013, 23:17 PM
#39
avatar of GeneralCH

Posts: 419



I fail to see how and invader with the goal of racial genocide is the "lesser than two evils",but fine. You do have a point, but is are (the western) view on soviet history any better? We tend to look down on them for things they done, we don't have a clean track record either. This game was just better off leaving the war crimes out. It is a video game after all.

You really think the main reason why germans invaded was about killing russian population?
1 Aug 2013, 23:17 PM
#40
avatar of BuzzCutPsycho

Posts: 72



I fail to see how and invader with the goal of racial genocide is the "lesser than two evils",but fine. You do have a point, but is are (the western) view on soviet history any better? We tend to look down on them for things they done, we don't have a clean track record either. This game was just better off leaving the war crimes out. It is a video game after all.


As history has shown the Soviet ideology proved to be just as harmful (arguably more) than that of the Nazis.

Some people like to take a modern "progressive" and "politically correct" stance on the subject of East and West but the cold hard facts are that the Soviet Union and all PACT countries were the bad guys and have caused harm to the world that is still felt to this day. Like it or not the East were and continue to be the "bad guys" and no amount of sugar coating and history denial will change that.

The world is a better place without the Soviet Union. The world would have been a better place if the Germans had succeeded in their supposed goal of "racial genocide" (which wasn't the goal) against the Soviet Union.
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