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How do deal with double wielding rifles?

17 Feb 2017, 08:30 AM
#1
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2243

Hello,

two players with same skill level. one pick OKW...one pick USF.

USF player build only 4-6 rilfes and equip them with brens an LMG.

2 squads get zooks and 1-2 AT guns.

thats it which build the USF player in the first 10minutes. he dont bloob..he dont move his unit in huge groups...


how do u deal with them as OKW player?

luchs must get repair after the 1-2 hits fromm zooks/ AT.

mg34 is easy flankable on most maps and don´t suppress fast. AA HT is killed very easily by 1-2 hits.

volks cant stand the dual wilding rifles.

ISG fire to slow/ not much impact on moving units.

stuka is easily evadeable.

pz4 can´t stand much long vs the AT/zooks.

falls and sturmpios get shredderd before they come to near.

commandopanther can stay longer ..but struggle vs infantery

what it the hardcounter vs not bloobing usf player which have a much rifles??

17 Feb 2017, 08:49 AM
#2
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1

BAR(60ammo)x2 x4 = 480 ammo
Zook(50ammo)x2 x2 = 200 ammo

680 munition in ten minutes? Were you playing a high resources custom game?

Imo, he was better than you. And you can post a replay so we can really see what happened.
17 Feb 2017, 09:20 AM
#3
avatar of APlebsyTeddyBear18

Posts: 25

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Feb 2017, 08:49 AMEsxile
BAR(60ammo)x2 x4 = 480 ammo
Zook(50ammo)x2 x2 = 200 ammo

680 munition in ten minutes? Were you playing a high resources custom game?

Imo, we was better than you. And you can post a replay so we can really see what happened.


I build munitions caches specifically for this purpose. 10 minutes is stretching the imagination yeah, but after 15 minutes you can get that composition up and there isn't much the OKW guy can do against it. It isn't really fun to play like that with USF either, it is just a-move and watch yourself 'win'.

Every now and then you will lose a rifle before you can get critical mass, but not very often.
17 Feb 2017, 09:26 AM
#4
avatar of JohnSmith

Posts: 1273

This topic should be in the strategy section, not balance.

If you struggle after 10 minutes to win a match against USF after them spending 680 munitions, them buying 4-6 rifles (4x280 = 1120MP), and after they built caches (at least 200MP) everywhere, then you may have a L2P issue.
17 Feb 2017, 09:33 AM
#5
avatar of Raddish

Posts: 20

That sounds like a lot of MP spent in 10 minutes, 6 squads, whichever officer for the AT guns and 2 AT guns.

Not counting any reinforcement costs from engagements in that time.
17 Feb 2017, 09:39 AM
#6
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1



I build munitions caches specifically for this purpose. 10 minutes is stretching the imagination yeah, but after 15 minutes you can get that composition up and there isn't much the OKW guy can do against it. It isn't really fun to play like that with USF either, it is just a-move and watch yourself 'win'.

Every now and then you will lose a rifle before you can get critical mass, but not very often.


1120mp + 400mp cache + 150mp Bar/zook upgrade + 250mp ambulance

1920mp in 10-15 minutes

let's say you have an average of 220mp/minutes (6 full squads get you down to around 200mp/min), 2200mp in 10 minutes.
Do you really believe you can spend 1920mp, not counting reinforcement, over 2200mp in 10 minutes on a balanced match?

That's a bad joke.
17 Feb 2017, 10:14 AM
#7
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2243

in 10-13min u can get easily 4-5 squads with 4-6 upgrades.

1-2 zooks and 4-5 bars do the job very well.

17 Feb 2017, 10:18 AM
#8
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2243

ones rifle squad is equipped with x2 LMGs it's pretty much become like obersoldaten in terms of AI. While obersoldaten are elite, non spamable inf, rifles are mainline inf and giving mainline inf AI of elite inf is quite stupid.

usually have 2 volks, 2 stums and 2 obersoldaten/Fallsh in late game and Usually they are unable to hold LMG blob effectively.
17 Feb 2017, 10:21 AM
#9
avatar of JohnSmith

Posts: 1273

Help us helping you by posting replays of your recent games. :)
17 Feb 2017, 10:32 AM
#10
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1

in 10-13min u can get easily 4-5 squads with 4-6 upgrades.

1-2 zooks and 4-5 bars do the job very well.



Oh so now it is not anymore double BARs + double Zooks on 6 squads in 10 minutes. Interesting.
17 Feb 2017, 11:24 AM
#11
avatar of Alphrum

Posts: 808

its okay to have A-moving wiping squads since they cost alot of MP and munitions so lelic please allow OKW obers to duel equip mg34's and dont forget dual mg42's on grenadiers too
17 Feb 2017, 11:35 AM
#12
avatar of Puppetmaster
Patrion 310

Posts: 871

If you genuinely want help (which you don't) then upload the replay. If you are here to cry x is op then that belongs in the tears section not balance.
17 Feb 2017, 11:40 AM
#13
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Feb 2017, 11:24 AMAlphrum
its okay to have A-moving wiping squads since they cost alot of MP and munitions so lelic please allow OKW obers to duel equip mg34's and dont forget dual mg42's on grenadiers too


Isn't the concept behind the King tiger?
17 Feb 2017, 12:18 PM
#14
avatar of Alphrum

Posts: 808

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Feb 2017, 11:40 AMEsxile


Isn't the concept behind the King tiger?


you really wanna compare a riflemen squad costs to a KT? discussion with people like you who'd defend their faction to the death is impossible isnt it
17 Feb 2017, 13:01 PM
#15
avatar of APlebsyTeddyBear18

Posts: 25

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Feb 2017, 09:39 AMEsxile


1120mp + 400mp cache + 150mp Bar/zook upgrade + 250mp ambulance

1920mp in 10-15 minutes

let's say you have an average of 220mp/minutes (6 full squads get you down to around 200mp/min), 2200mp in 10 minutes.
Do you really believe you can spend 1920mp, not counting reinforcement, over 2200mp in 10 minutes on a balanced match?

That's a bad joke.


You forget that you get free squads for teching, which I assume, he upgrades just as I do.
17 Feb 2017, 13:30 PM
#16
avatar of Tiger Baron

Posts: 3145 | Subs: 2

Play Allies until the WBP is officially released.
17 Feb 2017, 13:34 PM
#17
17 Feb 2017, 13:53 PM
#18
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

Moving to stage Office.

Replay are way more helpful than just words essays when trying to deal/improve with something.
17 Feb 2017, 13:54 PM
#19
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Feb 2017, 12:18 PMAlphrum


you really wanna compare a riflemen squad costs to a KT? discussion with people like you who'd defend their faction to the death is impossible isnt it


From a playercard perspective between us, I think facts shown in it deserve your words. From a gameplay perspective, A-move squadblob or A-move a KT is the same thing, It wipe squads standing on its path.



You forget that you get free squads for teching, which I assume, he upgrades just as I do.


He says his opponent went T2 so one of his squad cost 200 instead of 280, we can apply a reduction of 80 to the total. Does it change anything?

17 Feb 2017, 13:56 PM
#20
avatar of Intelligence209

Posts: 1124

People act like they dont know what OP is talking about.

We only see it in every game, riflemen, with 1 or 2 bars. Mid-late game, massively carried by the stewart.

Point of the matter is. As axis, there is no real punishment vs infantry carelessly moving about the battlefield. And riflemen are able to defend themselves, (equip 1 or 2 zooks)

Riflmen are able to snare, smoke, double equip LMGs, double equip zooks.

Add that with the stewart/MT sniping infantry thats encountered in a fire fight its a down hill battle.

As i posted in one of my threads, all allied infantry are able to blindly move around the battle field and not be threatened. Oh yea, by a super late KT.
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