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Things to consider for future patches

1 Jan 2017, 00:14 AM
#1
avatar of Angrade (Ægion)
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 763 | Subs: 2

I know that the winter balance patch has a specific guidelines of the team is able to edit (Light Tanks/Vehicles, Squad Formations & Clumping, USF Mortar, Penals & Guards, and Wehrmacht Infantry Scaling.) Anything more really could be too many variables that editing would give a large power creep. So once the dust settles here are some future things that could be taken under consideration. Also I used spoilers to prevent the dreaded wall of text.

MOD NOW AVAILABLE: http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/?id=836891753
Notes are here: https://www.coh2.org/topic/58432/%C3%86gion-s-alterations-2-mod

1. Call ins


2. Infiltration units


Balancing Infiltration units ideas
We do not need more squad wiping machines but they need to be able to scale in the late game. Here are my suggestions

Partisans (SMG)


Stormtroopers


Fallschirmjagers


Infiltration commandos



3. Pershing


4. Demolition Charges


5. Free stuff from teching


6. Ostheer Teching


Now lets talk about the smaller changes that I a suggesting. I am not going to bother with adjusting the various extra commands for soviets and ostheer because there are too many commanders with the same abilities just mixed around. Perhaps this would where custom commanders would come in but that is way out of a possibility of this game.

Conscripts


Shock troops


KV-1


All static Howitzers


Ostheer and US: Stormtrooper's, and Paratrooper's Tactical Assault and Riflemen Fire it up


US Assault Engineers


US Airborne


US Recon Support


US Mechanized Company


OWK Starting Unit


OKW Salvage and Cashes


British Royal Engineers


British Infantry Sections


British Field Recovery


British Commando Gliders


British Valentine


1 Jan 2017, 01:02 AM
#2
avatar of DonnieChan

Posts: 2245 | Subs: 1

1 Jan 2017, 01:06 AM
#3
avatar of Angrade (Ægion)
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 763 | Subs: 2

1 Jan 2017, 02:02 AM
#4
avatar of Justin xv

Posts: 255

Interesting thoughts, I like the idea of Fallschirmjagers still having FG42's instead of Mp40's though.

Why not spawn them Kar 98's and give them a "2x FG42" upgrade? Since no other unit in the game uses FG's it you could easily modify the weapon stats to put them on par with the BAR's or something.
1 Jan 2017, 03:10 AM
#5
avatar of Pluralitas

Posts: 70

All call-in s and Infiltration units should have a "call in" time. For the latter, enemies can fill up the target houses to prevent infiltration and the infiltration units will spawn in base if that happens.

Exceptions for paratroopers, glider borne commandoes because they have the "call-in" time in animation. Falls should paradrop in like the paratroopers instead of spawning.
1 Jan 2017, 12:04 PM
#6
avatar of Angrade (Ægion)
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 763 | Subs: 2

All call-in s and Infiltration units should have a "call in" time. For the latter, enemies can fill up the target houses to prevent infiltration and the infiltration units will spawn in base if that happens.

Exceptions for paratroopers, glider borne commandoes because they have the "call-in" time in animation. Falls should paradrop in like the paratroopers instead of spawning.


So for the call in time, you are referring to a delay before spawning the building? This could help prevent squad wipes on retreat and AT partisans instantly killing a vehicle. It would also makes since that Falls would be dropped in rather than spawned in.

Interesting thoughts, I like the idea of Fallschirmjagers still having FG42's instead of Mp40's though.

Why not spawn them Kar 98's and give them a "2x FG42" upgrade? Since no other unit in the game uses FG's it you could easily modify the weapon stats to put them on par with the BAR's or something.


Another possibility, but right now their cost is too high and too easily to be wiped.
1 Jan 2017, 12:06 PM
#7
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7

Only thing that falls need is calling them via airdrop like paratroopers.

They have animation for that, so why not.

If you fail to respond to 10 second low flying aircraft, that is easily shot and then slowly falling squad without combat capabilities for 3 seconds then its your mistake and you should be pusnihed.


Infiltration commados should be changed to glider ones - similar effect to falls.

JLI, partisans should be callable only if your territory, stroms are fine
1 Jan 2017, 12:23 PM
#8
avatar of Butcher

Posts: 1216

Not a single line about the underperfroming Panther that fills no needed role with its shit rate of fire? I defeated that thing with Cromwells 1v1.
1 Jan 2017, 12:24 PM
#9
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7

Not a single line about the underperfroming Panther that fills no needed role with its shit rate of fire? I defeated that thing with Cromwells 1v1.


On the other hand command panther is strong because of longer LoS and good Mark target ability.
If we buff normal panther, we will need to nerf command panther abilities, or he may become OP
1 Jan 2017, 12:29 PM
#10
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066

Apart from a few things, I agree with you. I would add some slight nerfs for brit mortar pit, cromwell and comet. Some slight buffs to the panther and make conscripts more viable and give them non doc ppsh.

Also, the KV1 needs more health, it is a heavy tank..
1 Jan 2017, 12:42 PM
#11
avatar of TheMachine
Senior Caster Badge

Posts: 875 | Subs: 6

Nice, I agree with almost all of the things you said. I hope we can fix many of these things next patch (Assuming we get that far.)
1 Jan 2017, 16:39 PM
#12
avatar of Pluralitas

Posts: 70



So for the call in time, you are referring to a delay before spawning the building? This could help prevent squad wipes on retreat and AT partisans instantly killing a vehicle. It would also makes since that Falls would be dropped in rather than spawned in.


Yes, however in Long retreat paths one can still make the cheesy wipe. To mitigate that I think making when the delay timer ends(make it countdown like those of active abilities I.e. rapid conscription), if the Target building is occupied then the unit will spawn in base instead. So the one retreating could "occupy=" the buildings in the retreat path to prevent it wiped in longer retreats. Also makes deep flanks with long retreats riskier in that sense.

Only thing that falls need is calling them via airdrop like paratroopers.

They have animation for that, so why not.

If you fail to respond to 10 second low flying aircraft, that is easily shot and then slowly falling squad without combat capabilities for 3 seconds then its your mistake and you should be pusnihed.


Infiltration commados should be changed to glider ones - similar effect to falls.

JLI, partisans should be callable only if your territory, stroms are fine


Well infiltration commandoes can just be removed and replaced with 5 man ones?
1 Jan 2017, 16:41 PM
#13
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7



Yes, however in Long retreat paths one can still make the cheesy wipe. To mitigate that I think making when the delay timer ends(make it countdown like those of active abilities I.e. rapid conscription), if the Target building is occupied then the unit will spawn in base instead. So the one retreating could "occupy=" the buildings in the retreat path to prevent it wiped in longer retreats. Also makes deep flanks with long retreats riskier in that sense.



Well infiltration commandoes can just be removed and replaced with 5 man ones?


It is 2 minute work for relic to change one ability in commader code to another. We already have glider commados spawning with glider in commandos commader
1 Jan 2017, 17:17 PM
#14
avatar of Mr.Smith

Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17


Well infiltration commandoes can just be removed and replaced with 5 man ones?


We can trivially make infiltration commandos be a copy-paste of other commandos, just spawning at 4-men when spawning from buildings.

I mean, the only positive thing infiltration commandos have going for them is the cheesy building spawn & gammon thing. Otherwise, they are strictly inferior to the other varieties (440MP for 4-man commandos and no demo charge).

Yeah, well, they also have the landmatress going. But no Assault, no Heroic Charge (tea & biscuits charge); just the crappy advanced cover thing, which is the worst buff in the game.
1 Jan 2017, 19:57 PM
#15
avatar of Angrade (Ægion)
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 763 | Subs: 2

Not a single line about the underperfroming Panther that fills no needed role with its shit rate of fire? I defeated that thing with Cromwells 1v1.


The panther maybe in a good spot if it was more easily accessible. I would suggest do one thing at a time to prevent a huge power creep.
2 Jan 2017, 02:23 AM
#16
avatar of Pluralitas

Posts: 70



We can trivially make infiltration commandos be a copy-paste of other commandos, just spawning at 4-men when spawning from buildings.

I mean, the only positive thing infiltration commandos have going for them is the cheesy building spawn & gammon thing. Otherwise, they are strictly inferior to the other varieties (440MP for 4-man commandos and no demo charge).

Yeah, well, they also have the landmatress going. But no Assault, no Heroic Charge (tea & biscuits charge); just the crappy advanced cover thing, which is the worst buff in the game.


The glider borne commandoes may be too much for the already very useful other abilities. Flame + rocket arty + repair. Now with durable demo planting infantry wrecking units....

Advance cover is situationally good but doesn't fit the theme of "mobile assault", raid operation would be nice but then....

My 2 cents.. take away the m2 upgrade for sappers and replaced with raid operations. Make 4 men base spawning commandoes with flamers...
2 Jan 2017, 04:56 AM
#17
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1



The glider borne commandoes may be too much for the already very useful other abilities. Flame + rocket arty + repair. Now with durable demo planting infantry wrecking units....

Advance cover is situationally good but doesn't fit the theme of "mobile assault", raid operation would be nice but then....

My 2 cents.. take away the m2 upgrade for sappers and replaced with raid operations. Make 4 men base spawning commandoes with flamers...


Stealth units with Flamers and good Grenades?
That will totally not end with more Axis tears.
2 Jan 2017, 05:54 AM
#18
avatar of Vuther
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1



Stealth units with Flamers and good Grenades?
That will totally not end with more Axis tears.

OH MY GOD WHY IS EVERYTHING ON FIRE

Oh right he went Mobile Assault
2 Jan 2017, 09:01 AM
#19
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7



The glider borne commandoes may be too much for the already very useful other abilities. Flame + rocket arty + repair. Now with durable demo planting infantry wrecking units....

Advance cover is situationally good but doesn't fit the theme of "mobile assault", raid operation would be nice but then....

My 2 cents.. take away the m2 upgrade for sappers and replaced with raid operations. Make 4 men base spawning commandoes with flamers...


Do you know how much glider borne commados cost ? 540 MP. Glider is almost useless because all it does is reinforce. You cannot retreat to it nor repair it.

And only difference between glider borne and infiltration commados is 1 member and 110 MP cost.

And you trade cheese (infiltrating) for cheese (demo). If demo get fixed (only on buildings), strategic points like OKW booby trap, then demo won´t be such a problem anymore
2 Jan 2017, 10:59 AM
#20
avatar of Mr.Smith

Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17



Do you know how much glider borne commados cost ? 540 MP. Glider is almost useless because all it does is reinforce. You cannot retreat to it nor repair it.

And only difference between glider borne and infiltration commados is 1 member and 110 MP cost.

And you trade cheese (infiltrating) for cheese (demo). If demo get fixed (only on buildings), strategic points like OKW booby trap, then demo won´t be such a problem anymore


It's the Vanguard glider that costs 540MP.
Commandos glider costs 500MP.
Inf commandos cost 440MP iirc'

Btw, note that UKF demo has worse radius than the other two demos (USF and Soviet one).
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