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russian armor

Any reason for it?

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29 Jun 2016, 18:42 PM
#21
avatar of TheSleep3r

Posts: 670

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Jun 2016, 18:30 PMFrost


Rekt. How he can know that if he doesn't even play this game? Kappa


Stale meme
29 Jun 2016, 18:44 PM
#22
avatar of Crumbum

Posts: 213

People are forgetting to mention that t34-76 and p4s(ost) have terrible moving accuracy (50%) which is major factor in how they perform against other vehicles. In comparison most WFA vehicles have 75%, well at least Sherman and Cromwell ofc. The ost p4 should be about 115 fuel if it was to reflect its performance and the fact that axis vehicles were intended to be more expensive in the game.
29 Jun 2016, 18:45 PM
#23
avatar of GenObi

Posts: 553

Valiant effort Katiof, but you cant fix stupid
29 Jun 2016, 18:50 PM
#24
avatar of Crumbum

Posts: 213

Also Cromwell is underpriced for its performance (regarded by most as the best medium in game).

I don't know if the stats used here are for the okw p4 or the ost one, but the ost p4 rarely bounces crap if they don't have skirts, and the pen is mediocre as hell.
29 Jun 2016, 18:52 PM
#25
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Jun 2016, 18:50 PMCrumbum
Also Cromwell is underpriced for its performance (regarded by most as the best medium in game).

I don't know if the stats used here are for the okw p4 or the ost one, but the ost p4 rarely bounces crap if they don't have skirts, and the pen is mediocre as hell.


Agreed.
29 Jun 2016, 18:53 PM
#26
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Jun 2016, 18:40 PMBudwise
Playing numbers is fun huh.

I pretty much get paid for that. :megusta:

P4 is shit for the fuel cost and the OKW one even worse. Why no T34/85 in the numbers? And for the fuel cost the T34/76 is still just as good an all around tank as a P4 and at 80 fuel its a bargain.

Because 34/85 is doctrinal and its not there, being ready for every single game. :snfBarton:
STOP bringing OKW P4 cost as an excuse for anything people, both of us know full well why OKW armor is more expensive then Ost armor.

Yes, T34 is in a good spot now, it took THREE YEARS of CONSTANT BUFFS to get it there.
Ost StuG went the same way and is in good spot as well.
P4 always was strong and reliable tank with great scaling, only time it fails is when you try to use it as a tank hunter, for which you have StuG and P4s AI isn't lacking anywhere.
29 Jun 2016, 18:54 PM
#27
avatar of Tobis
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2307 | Subs: 4

The only problem medium is the Cromwell being a bit too cheap and having a too high turning speed.
29 Jun 2016, 18:56 PM
#28
29 Jun 2016, 19:00 PM
#29
avatar of RedT3rror

Posts: 747 | Subs: 2

Don't see why the cromwell is "undepriced". It's terrible against infantry and mostly a tank for swarming other bigger tanks.
P4 is fine - it can fight medium tanks and infantry alike but you have to think a bit more about late game because allies will counter your P4 with their tank hunters. It's better to have a Stug and a P4 than 2 P4s.
29 Jun 2016, 19:04 PM
#30
avatar of Dangerous-Cloth

Posts: 2066

Don't see why the cromwell is "undepriced". It's terrible against infantry and mostly a tank for swarming other bigger tanks.


:snfPeter:
29 Jun 2016, 19:08 PM
#31
avatar of RedT3rror

Posts: 747 | Subs: 2



:snfPeter:


I tend to use this against any tank that tries to crush me
29 Jun 2016, 19:09 PM
#32
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Jun 2016, 18:33 PMKatitof

Well, seeing some of your posts recently, I'd say you aspire to top me and you're on a good direction to do that.

But...



For simplicity, I'll use the mid range penetration(as this is the range where most shoot outs happen unless one jumped on others rear), which is:

T34: 100
Cromwell: 120
Sherman: 120
P4: 110

Now, on to armor:

T34: 150
Cromwell: 160
Sherman: 160
P4: 180

Reload:

T34: 6,1
Cromwell: 5,9
Sherman: 5,9
P4: 5,6

I don't think I even need to do math for T34, because its obvious its at disadvantage here, unless it attacks first and gets on rear armor, but for the sake of discussion, I'll include it:

P4 vs T34

T34 have 55% to pen and needs on average 9 shots to kill P4.
P4 have 73% chance to pen and on average needs 5 shots to kill T34.

Difference is rather obvious who is the regular winner here and by what margin.

Now:

P4 vs Cromwell

Cromwell have 66% to pen and needs on average 6 shots, average TTK being 29,5 seconds.
P4 have almost 69% to pen and needs on average 6 shots as well, except it fires slightly faster, needing only 28 secs to kill cromwell.

While its not really crushing, P4 have advantage here.

Same numbers apply for sherman.

Accuracy of the guns is the same, BUT sherman got slightly bigger target size so its slightly easier to hit, tipping RNG scales in the P4 favor another bit more.

Conclusion:

Ost P4 have the advantage over every single allied stock, as I've said(which to you is delusional).
vs T34 there is no contest, winner is clear.
vs cromwell and sherman, the RNG is involved, but the odds still favor P4(slightly more vs sherman if we include accuracy and target size), just as I've said.
in the perfect world were tank stand still while they fight and mg are unflancable
0.75 accuracy on the move kat if only p4 or p5 got that
Ok you will say but who is faster and can easily crush inf ?
P4 is just bad with dat price 110 is the right one
Accuracy >pen if it doesn't it it can't pen
29 Jun 2016, 19:24 PM
#33
avatar of Frost

Posts: 1024 | Subs: 1



Stale meme


Still current Kappa
29 Jun 2016, 19:26 PM
#34
avatar of JohnSmith

Posts: 1273

Has this thread turned into a katitof hate thread because he's was the only one to actually bother using game stats?
29 Jun 2016, 19:39 PM
#35
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

Has this thread turned into a katitof hate thread because he's was the only one to actually bother using game stats?
yes then one that favor his opinion he never point to the site page cause you can see the whole picture then and see that armor is the only thing p4 has and is not even that good
29 Jun 2016, 19:42 PM
#36
avatar of JohnSmith

Posts: 1273

Well, I haven't seen anything that uses stats to denote your point. Feel free to do so.
29 Jun 2016, 19:45 PM
#37
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

Well, I haven't seen anything that uses stats to denote your point. Feel free to do so.
http://www.stat.coh2.hu/squad.php?filename=panzer_iv_squad_mp
http://www.stat.coh2.hu/squad.php?filename=cromwell_mk4_75mm_squad_mp
Take your time bro(if you want you can look at tech cost too)
29 Jun 2016, 19:49 PM
#38
avatar of PencilBatRation

Posts: 794

The Cromwell and T3476 are underpriced.
29 Jun 2016, 19:56 PM
#39
avatar of JohnSmith

Posts: 1273

http://www.stat.coh2.hu/squad.php?filename=panzer_iv_squad_mp
http://www.stat.coh2.hu/squad.php?filename=cromwell_mk4_75mm_squad_mp
Take your time bro(if you want you can look at tech cost too)


Kat took his time to explain his points, why don't you? So far, he got the best arguments.
29 Jun 2016, 20:03 PM
#40
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Jun 2016, 18:36 PMKatitof

Good that you've realized that its not stats that are bad, but you yourself.
Glad I could help to bring the real issue, so you can work on it :romeoMug:



You forgot Cromwell speed and its low hitbox, so it will evade more shots + can get behind p4 much easier and thust defeat him because of weak rear armor
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