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OKW can be killed in less than 5 minutes

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23 Jun 2016, 13:54 PM
#221
avatar of OZtheWiZARD

Posts: 1439

If that's too much then I am sure adjustment will be made in the next patch to compensate.

However I don't find a viable reason to remove paid health upgrade as resource penalty for OKW is no longer present.

I find it stunning that people are unable to reference these two. In the past when penalties were present it made sense to have lower tech cost and free upgrades but with them gone why would you still expect stuff for free especially that ever other army has to pay for these?
23 Jun 2016, 14:17 PM
#222
avatar of Partisanship

Posts: 207

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jun 2016, 23:57 PMpigsoup
Too much partisanship here...

0. I saw someone using stats on coh2charts.com saying OKW has the lowest winrate - not true, (obviously looking at 1v1, 1-250), UKF has the lowest and only USF has 4-5% winrate above everybody else. So maybe the real problem is USF. Although it maybe just attributed to superman mortar they got.

1. To ones who say OKW healing cost Truck + Setup +upgrade... well, the Truck + Setup element was already there so the real cost is only 100mp 15fu. A semi-valid complaint would be that OKW has to pick a tier for the access to meds... which was the case since the beginning... so may be not.

2. This leads to people comparing free things and paid side techs each factions get to advance their own points. Well, some factions get more of one and less of the other but those two elements alone do not need to be absolutely balanced. again, coh2charts show almost identical winrates for all factions... and since this patch was the most played one before the release by many, even a tournament, so i think the ratio will not swing drastically in two weeks.

3. as comm_ash said, WC51 cannot suddenly become a problem. shreck was not available at T0 in the first place so it is dishonest to say that the jeep suddenly dominates OKW early game. almost same goes for M3 but M3 and SOV T1 are stronger.

4. Complaining Volks STGs is the weakest INF or too weak... Cons have been doing fine even with no upgrades and bare bone stats mostly due to sandbags, upgradable snare and oorah. Now, volks have two of them and instead of oorah, an upgrade that makes them good close range.

5. More munition options =/= muni starved... if i pick Pershing, am i suddenly fuel starved? Jackson and Sherman are still same price along with everything else.

------------------------------

if you want the game to improve, find bugs so relic can fix them with upcoming hotfix patch. and let the game settle at least a week.


When did I become an adjective?
23 Jun 2016, 14:25 PM
#223
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Jun 2016, 13:09 PMsinthe


People are upset because you HAVE to build a puma. The people that didn't schreck blob and used 2-3 volks in a game now have no real AT option. Both racketen and SP are UP compared to pretty much every equivilent.


How Raketen is UP when compare to 57mm for example?
How SP with schreck are UP when compare to RE with bazooka? How they are UP when compare to Cons with... Oh, wait...

Going for Luchs + Raketen + SP is perfectly viable. You don't have to go for Puma.
23 Jun 2016, 15:08 PM
#224
avatar of Imagelessbean

Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1

The Rakenten needs to have its squad members not bunch up. Without the green cover offered by most AT guns it is very vulnerable to one shots.

I would be ok with an upgrade for fausts or healing tied to the OKW HQ to avoid the problem of locking OKW into a needed med truck if they go Mech. Having said that, OKW vet brings healing so the faction need only survive until it kicks in, at which point healing trucks are unnecessary since healing occurs on retreat.

Flak truck needs some help, especially now that the MG34 is on OKW.

I still hate how the ISG functions in the game.

SP may or may not need an added shrek. Giving them double shreks makes the PGs for sure, but would help to deal with heavier vehicles. I think SP should be used only as a stop gap for real AT at this point. No Allied light tank can afford to ignore a single shrek squad when a faust is available on basic infantry. Making the rakenten less likely to be wiped by single shots would go a long way to making OKW extremely potent again.


Final thoughts. This is a completely new OKW, do not play it like old OKW. Many players I have seen continue to rely on blobs of volks and forget they must build at least one rakenten to help deal with light armor when it arrives. Build orders will need to change. You might consider getting a 2nd SP if your opponent starts to play into light armor. Right now OKW feels vulnerable to armor in a way it never has before, and that's the point. It felt very secure against all armored threats as soon as 3 volks had shreks. Now you are at risk unless you diversify your army. Having said all this does not mean I don't want to continue to test the changes. If I find weaknesses on any side I want them to be addressed to make the game fair for all factions. Anticipate large changes in leader boards, especially in large game modes where very sloppy play has been encouraged for too long.
23 Jun 2016, 15:56 PM
#225
avatar of austerlitz

Posts: 1705

The raketen is just shit,unrealiable,short range and easy to kill.
And OKW side techs are too costly early on.OKW lost all flexibility early on.
And ofcourse USF is easymode faction defeating both axis faction with one arm tied behind its back.

What does usf lack anymore?Nothing...
Best core infantry...great elite infantry,ultimate vet bonuses

3 indirect fire weapon -mortar,pack howitzer plus the M8 on wheels.Best SPG in calliope by FAR.

HMG.AT constantly buffed.

Only faction still capable of blobbing with dual AT weapons which pisses on light and medium armour.Even AT gun constantly buffed.

Superb light vehicles.Stuart and AA are both excellent.Axis have only 1 good light vehicle in luchs between 2 factions in comparison.

Good medium armour,and if e8 chosen probably the best.
Great grenades.

Can dual wield,making infantry even more OP.
Forward reinforcement.Easiest repair.

Great tank destroyer in jackson.
Even Heavy tank.

Faction is so strong in every department it has no weaknesses,good usf player curbstomp both axis factions now.Early only volks blobs bothered them,but that was alreday in decline after calliope..and now gone altogether.

Just watch the coming usf slaughter of axis in 2 vs 2 tourney.
23 Jun 2016, 16:38 PM
#226
avatar of $nuffy

Posts: 129

The raketen is just shit,unrealiable,short range and easy to kill.
And OKW side techs are too costly early on.OKW lost all flexibility early on.
And ofcourse USF is easymode faction defeating both axis faction with one arm tied behind its back.

What does usf lack anymore?Nothing...
Best core infantry...great elite infantry,ultimate vet bonuses

3 indirect fire weapon -mortar,pack howitzer plus the M8 on wheels.Best SPG in calliope by FAR.

HMG.AT constantly buffed.

Only faction still capable of blobbing with dual AT weapons which pisses on light and medium armour.Even AT gun constantly buffed.

Superb light vehicles.Stuart and AA are both excellent.Axis have only 1 good light vehicle in luchs between 2 factions in comparison.

Good medium armour,and if e8 chosen probably the best.
Great grenades.

Can dual wield,making infantry even more OP.
Forward reinforcement.Easiest repair.

Great tank destroyer in jackson.
Even Heavy tank.

Faction is so strong in every department it has no weaknesses,good usf player curbstomp both axis factions now.Early only volks blobs bothered them,but that was alreday in decline after calliope..and now gone altogether.

Just watch the coming usf slaughter of axis in 2 vs 2 tourney.


so very true. btw in easiest repair, u presume exclusive vehicle crews?, which doesn't even remotely mean just "easiest" repairs but a whole other specter of faulty implications. Free repairs practically on the go, jump out exploit which adds additional micro and frustration upon the opposing player, and transferring of vehicle vet let's not forget..
23 Jun 2016, 17:58 PM
#227
avatar of austerlitz

Posts: 1705

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Jun 2016, 16:38 PM$nuffy


so very true. btw in easiest repair, u presume exclusive vehicle crews?, which doesn't even remotely mean just "easiest" repairs but a whole other specter of faulty implications. Free repairs practically on the go, jump out exploit which adds additional micro and frustration upon the opposing player, and transferring of vehicle vet let's not forget..


Yeah ,thats what i mean.USF has been buffed to a point where it has broken all balance between factions,as it now lacks almost nothing.It needs hard nerfs now if axis factions are to remain playable in this game.
23 Jun 2016, 18:09 PM
#228
avatar of whitesky00

Posts: 468

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jun 2016, 16:04 PMsinthe


Fully upgraded the healing forward retreat point is 600 mp and 55 fuel.


USF fully upgraded forward retreat point 240mp 120 fu major + 250mp 10 fu ambu = 490 MP and 130 FU
23 Jun 2016, 18:30 PM
#229
avatar of DonnieChan

Posts: 1646 | Subs: 1

1. played 2 games today as OKW vs top 50 guys and wasnt killed in less than 5 minutes in either of them

2. every OP who doesn't show playercard should automatically considered as 4v4 one faction hero
23 Jun 2016, 18:42 PM
#230
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

The raketen is just shit,unrealiable,short range and easy to kill.
And OKW side techs are too costly early on.OKW lost all flexibility early on.
And ofcourse USF is easymode faction defeating both axis faction with one arm tied behind its back.


SP, Kubel, Volks, Raketen - no flexibility :mellow:
23 Jun 2016, 19:01 PM
#231
avatar of ImSkemo

Posts: 444

Guys Give it a week or 2 before you start screaming buff/nerfs.. The Beauty of this game is that the counters are available to those who put their effort into understanding units weakness/strength, units that seem shitty when used properly will more than warrant there presence..

Some times yeah certain things get bugged out like US mortar which was broken until today.. But rest of changes I agree upon .. Key word is Adapt.

I watch a lot of Angrifen's plays, that dude has some clever counters that I dont see even in some of top players.. He might not have micro top 10 players but he is one of the Top players in my book when you watch ppl like him you will understand that game is much balanced than you thought.




23 Jun 2016, 20:17 PM
#232
avatar of PencilBatRation

Posts: 794



Yeah ,thats what i mean.USF has been buffed to a point where it has broken all balance between factions,as it now lacks almost nothing.It needs hard nerfs now if axis factions are to remain playable in this game.



Aside from the addition of a mortar, USF is mostly fine. T0 HM38 for USF is against CoH2.



However the SU shits on OKW. The maxim HMG should cost 600 MP or OKW should be given more accessible hard counters. The M3 should have its moving accuracy nerfed as well.

23 Jun 2016, 20:21 PM
#233
avatar of whitesky00

Posts: 468

DonnieChan has spoken!

On AT platforms, rakuten is squishy because people are using them like volks and shoving them on the front lines. They got an increase in arc of fire and perma camo until fire or literally walked upon.

USF AT gun has a target size of 1.25... compared to 1 of every other AT gun. It's easy to kill so you have to use it defensively just like every other ATG
24 Jun 2016, 04:50 AM
#234
avatar of SturmtigerCobra
Patrion 310

Posts: 712 | Subs: 12

So basically even a light car can end the game now.


  • Panzerfaust: Costs more than its equivalents and is locked behind a slow teching (Compared to SU/OST, early-early game)

  • STG Sidegrade: Around %20 increased damage @ close range and zero improvement at long range, the distance volks are supposed to excel at. You shouldn't pay 60 munis just to get two downgraded versions of sturmpioneers MP44s. They already got 4, and for free.

  • Panzershreck: How about just creating a new "AT" unit instead of overloading sturmpioneers with their hefty reinforce cost. EDIT:Actually it is fine on sturms, since it seems to be an improved version, also sturms have some use past the 5 minute mark. So this is a non-issue.

  • Medics: As stressed out by every one else, the fuel cost is just silly, given the fact that they will be bleeding early game due to heavy light car domination.

  • M1 81mm: USF does not need this. Just reduce the price for teching nades and remove this new cheese altogether. It is Single–handedly negating %99 of the core CoH2 design and gameplay elements. They have the most broken howitzer in game already so there is no justification for adding this, and specially in HQ! WTF. So either remove this or remove ostheer T1 and T2 buildings altogether. The MG34 at 2-3CP makes zero sense as well, as long as this unit exists.



And now some suggestions.

  • Allow OKW to build caches: Since the asymmetrical aspects of the design have been buried long time ago and now that OST can build sandbags, USF can build mortars and both the SU and USF have an excellent early/mid/late game (contray to their original design), there is nothing wrong with allowing OKW to build caches.

  • Either reduce the cost for using the panzerfaust, double the damage or remove the teching requirement. Or captain molo apprentices will reign supreme again.

  • Move obers to Tier 2, or buff volks damage up to 14-15




Edit: thanks to Exsile for providing us with this replay, it helps illustrating the point more vividly. https://www.coh2.org/replay/53913/wc51-start-vs-okw


Edit 2: Noticable posts:







:lol:

















24 Jun 2016, 05:10 AM
#235
avatar of Taksin02

Posts: 108

Medic HQ - medics upgrade - 250mp
build Caches = no salvage
24 Jun 2016, 05:39 AM
#236
avatar of PencilBatRation

Posts: 794


Well, lemme give you a cookie for being a witty, creative little boy.:wub::wub::wub::wub:
24 Jun 2016, 06:06 AM
#237
avatar of Madness

Posts: 33

:*(:*(:*(:*(:*(:*(:*(:*(:*(:*(:*(:*(


FTFY.

Please try a different faction were you might be against your beloved OKW. I see Stug life and others calling for complete switch of the units and setups. We know that won't happen or make sense. So why don't you guys simply do the somewhat easy thing and try playing allies? Because as loud as you are about allied fanboys it does say something that it is the same guys in the same threads always making the same claims.

Call what you think is allied fanboys out on the same thing. change up for a month or something where you only play as your "Nemesis"
24 Jun 2016, 08:23 AM
#238
avatar of austerlitz

Posts: 1705

What the hell happened ?how does usf mortar still retain that rate of fire and scatter after hotfix?By what right usf has ultimate mortar and ultimate infantry?

Wehr mortar was nerfed to be on par..but usf retains these features..so much for faction design ,wehr support unit faction blah blah...blatantly biased relic balance .
24 Jun 2016, 08:28 AM
#239
avatar of austerlitz

Posts: 1705



SP, Kubel, Volks, Raketen - no flexibility :mellow:


Flexibility means choice.OKW forced to go puma now.And teching is painful.
Raketen despite what they say is really a joke of a AT gun...maybe if it was 220 mp it would be worth using,but now you are forced to use it.AT guns main job is to hit from range...it lacks range itself and is killed one shot many times.
24 Jun 2016, 08:31 AM
#240
avatar of austerlitz

Posts: 1705

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Jun 2016, 19:01 PMImSkemo
Guys Give it a week or 2 before you start screaming buff/nerfs.. The Beauty of this game is that the counters are available to those who put their effort into understanding units weakness/strength, units that seem shitty when used properly will more than warrant there presence..

Some times yeah certain things get bugged out like US mortar which was broken until today.. But rest of changes I agree upon .. Key word is Adapt.

I watch a lot of Angrifen's plays, that dude has some clever counters that I dont see even in some of top players.. He might not have micro top 10 players but he is one of the Top players in my book when you watch ppl like him you will understand that game is much balanced than you thought.







How is current usf even justified??Thats what i want to know?What do they lack?Nothing...
I asked this before..none of the allied people answered because they know there is no answer.They will just sidestep with 'its fine,l2p'..cant answer point by point how usf can have everything.

'Best core infantry...great elite infantry,ultimate vet bonuses

3 indirect fire weapon -mortar,pack howitzer plus the M8 on wheels.Best SPG in calliope by FAR.

HMG.AT constantly buffed.

Only faction still capable of blobbing with dual AT weapons which pisses on light and medium armour.Even AT gun constantly buffed.

Superb light vehicles.Stuart and AA are both excellent.Axis have only 1 good light vehicle in luchs between 2 factions in comparison.

Good medium armour,and if e8 chosen probably the best.
Great grenades.

Can dual wield,making infantry even more OP.
Forward reinforcement.Easiest repair.

Great tank destroyer in jackson.
Even Heavy tank.

Faction is so strong in every department it has no weaknesses,good usf player curbstomp both axis factions now.Early only volks blobs bothered them,but that was alreday in decline after calliope..and now gone altogether'.
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