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OKW can be killed in less than 5 minutes

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22 Jun 2016, 01:12 AM
#1
avatar of PencilBatRation

Posts: 794

So basically even a light car can end the game now.


  • Panzerfaust: Costs more than its equivalents and is locked behind a slow teching (Compared to SU/OST, early-early game). The animation is also too slow, which results in losing the volkgrenadiers squad.

  • STG Sidegrade: Around %20 increased damage @ close range and zero improvement at long range, the distance volks are supposed to excel at. You shouldn't pay 60 munis just to get two downgraded versions of sturmpioneers MP44s. They already got 4, and for free.

  • Panzershreck: How about just creating a new "AT" unit instead of overloading sturmpioneers with their hefty reinforce cost. EDIT:Actually it is fine on sturms, since it seems to be an improved version, also sturms have some use past the 5 minute mark. So this is a non-issue.

  • The Soviet GMC™ Doctrine: This doctrine is broken as hell. HM38 is much more effective than the leFH/leIG yet it is ridiculously cheaper. It does an excellent job at wiping out sturmpioneers, MG34s, falls and obersoldaten. It also negates the core design element of OKW, the Forward trucks. T3485s outmatch the PIV and are also cheaper. Mark taret turns every vehicle into a Jagdtiger and without smoke you are pretty much fucked.

  • Medics: As stressed out by every one else, the fuel cost is just silly, given the fact that they will be bleeding early game due to heavy light car domination.

  • M1 81mm: USF does not need this. Both axis factions rely on heavy use of cover and in case of Ostheer, support teams. Just reduce the price for teching nades and remove this new cheese altogether. It is Single–handedly negating %99 of the core CoH2 design and gameplay elements. They have the most broken howitzer in game already so there is no justification for adding this, and specially in HQ! WTF. So either remove this or remove ostheer T1 and T2 buildings altogether. The MG34 at 2-3CP makes zero sense as well, as long as this unit exists.



And now some suggestions.

  • Allow OKW to build caches: Since the asymmetrical aspects of the design have been buried long time ago and now that OST can build sandbags, USF can build mortars and both the SU and USF have an excellent early/mid/late game (contray to their original design), there is nothing wrong with allowing OKW to build caches.

  • Either reduce the cost for using the panzerfaust, double the damage or remove the teching requirement. Or captain molo apprentices will reign supreme again. (M3/Jeep Dickery etc)

  • Move obers to Tier 2 so they would have a window of opportunity to vet up and reduce their MP cost while increasing their upgrade costs, or buff volks damage up to 14-15

  • Revert the vehicle cost changes:as suggested by some other members as well.



Edit: thanks to Exsile for providing us with this replay, it helps illustrating the point more vividly. https://www.coh2.org/replay/53913/wc51-start-vs-okw


Edit 2: Noticable posts:
jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jun 2016, 08:27 AMHikuran


So how about we exchange Faction characteristics, let OKW have weapons rack and ambulance Obel Blitz, let USF to go with trucks, one 60muni Bazooka per RE and 2 TMS per Rifles?

I'm ok with Vet 1 Faust if u can change that for me

No Fuel and Muni cache are with Vet 5. You can change that too if you want.

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jun 2016, 07:28 AMKatitof
#adapt
or
#extinct



jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jun 2016, 06:30 AMNEVEC
Buff stg44 on volks, give surmpios ability to upgrade second shrek after T4.



To get healing you need to pay for:
- SwS truck call-in
- Battlegroup HQ building
- Medics unlock

So it is not about JUST Medics unlock.


4 vs 4 is hilarious watching them repeatedly run into MGs and AAHTs.
:lol:



According to cruzz, the USF mortar is longer range, faster, and more accurate than any other stock mortar in the game.



jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jun 2016, 21:27 PMJadame!
I feel like they need tank hunters obers buildable from hq at the begining, which come with 2 at rifles and can upgrade to double shrecks, their combat stats significantly weaker and different from obers then normal obers stats for reasons. Shreck pios is joke.

Still, too early to tell.


OKW ded. Ostheer ded. Axis ded. Watch all the wehraboos(aka 75% of coh2 player) disappear.

Allied fangirls think Axis still any good this patch, claim it's "balanced" coz their free wins are all totally due to their "skill". Meanwhile, people who actually play both sides equally, claim OKW is UP (Ostheer's been scheibe a long time now).

And before you put me on any side, I play mostly USF with EFA a close second.

Bye Axis. Cheers to the masochists who still play those factions, and thanks for the easy wins. :hansGG:


jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jun 2016, 16:21 PMBudwise
An already muni starved faction is now more muni starved and still can't build caches.




Could you explain to me (logically please!) why healing should cost fuel?


you know he is a little bias but he doesn't want other to notice so sometime he says good think about okw he just don't want to be found out


jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jun 2016, 15:23 PMJadame!
OKW? More like pick jeep commander for free wins with molostrats.


jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jun 2016, 21:05 PMmedhood

Well it cant be in the Captain cause there is already Pack Howitzer so only logical choice would be Leut, although it was added to counter MGs and Garrisons with the Barrage + Smoke but because Relic made it op, people are using it for different reasons all together

On Topic, OKW side tech is stupid, yes they should get side tech but of all things why the Medics and repair pioneers no one complain about these ever

Why not make the StGs, Nades, Panzershrecks and Raketen CAMO into side tech in HQ put MG34 in there as side tech if you want even, atleast this would force players to make decisions, do I unlock these early in the game or try to rush out a vehicle

Removing Shrecks weakened the late game of OKW heavily aswell, I think some medium vehicle price adjustments should be taken into consideration

Also making the Faust side tech is completely insane OKW needs it vs the M3 Scout Car, Bren Carrier etc.

Now that Im on the Topic of Fausts, cant they just be available from the start and remove the base flaks the only reason OKW has those is to protect them from allied light vehicle rushes but now if they have the faust in T0 they wont need it no more

This would make base rushing OKW more viable and the OKW player wouldnt have an affect on call-in planes with 0 input

22 Jun 2016, 01:19 AM
#2
avatar of Hikuran

Posts: 182

I'm ok with other so-called "nerf" on OKW but I can't stand that Medics and Repair are no longer free...
OKW need to pay 400mp and 55fuel for a medic station
22 Jun 2016, 01:24 AM
#3
avatar of garmeth06

Posts: 30

If volks damage gets buffed to 14 or 15. The game will actually be unplayable. They would be riflemen but better in almost every way. Like holy shit that would be terrible. A single volks in a building would probably be able to 2v1 conscripts at far range.
22 Jun 2016, 01:43 AM
#4
avatar of Smiling Tiger

Posts: 207

So basically even a light car can end the game now.


  • Panzerfaust: Costs more than its equivalents and is locked behind a slow teching (Compared to SU/OST, early-early game)

  • STG Sidegrade: Around %20 increased damage @ close range and zero improvement at long range, the distance volks are supposed to excel at. You shouldn't pay 60 munis just to get two downgraded versions of sturmpioneers MP44s. They already got 4, and for free.

  • Panzershreck: How about just creating a new "AT" unit instead of overloading sturmpioneers with their hefty reinforce cost.

  • Medics: As stressed out by every one else, the fuel cost is just silly, given the fact that they will be bleeding early game due to heavy light car domination.




And now some suggestions.

  • Allow OKW to build caches: Since the asymmetrical aspects of the design have been buried long time ago and now that OST can build sandbags, USF can build mortars and both the SU and USF have an excellent early/mid/late game (contray to their original design), there is nothing wrong with allowing OKW to build caches.

  • Either reduce the cost for using the panzerfaust, double the damage or remove the teching requirement. Or captain molo apprentices will reign supreme again.

  • Move obers to Tier 2, or buff volks damage up to 14-15




I definitely agree that the teching for medics and repairs is too high (it should have a price of about 150 mp and 5 fuel in my opinion) but I dont think that the OKW should have caches because the OKW already has a very wide amount of tools compared to other factions and I think all factions should have their weaknesses because although more things were given to other factions like sandbags and mortars, they still have missing elements that other factions have and I like that design.

As for the panzerfaust I dont think its cost or damage should be changed but I do agree that it shouldn't require teching because of the potential for light vehicle rushes.

As for Obers and volksgrenadiers I am totally apposed to buffing volks damage output because of the potential for the rebirth of the volks blob and they have lots of utility and they revived an AI upgrade which I absolutely love. Despite what you may think the stg 44 (not mp44 god why do people keep calling it that, its a sturmgewehr not a maschinenpistole) upgrade is great, the patch has only been out for less than a day but ive already played with them enough to see their great potential, they may not be good at long range but the damage increase at close range really gives you the upper hand especially against the British. I think moving Obers to tier 2 would be op but I think that they could use a damage buff or a price reduction because right now they are not cost efficient for their lack of utility, frailness and current dps.
22 Jun 2016, 02:17 AM
#5
avatar of kingdun3284

Posts: 392

L2P and build an ATG. You get faust even more quickly and earlier as sherck needs time to upgrade after tech up.
22 Jun 2016, 02:28 AM
#6
avatar of Nosliw

Posts: 515

So basically even a light car can end the game now.


  • STG Sidegrade: Around %20 increased damage @ close range and zero improvement at long range, the distance volks are supposed to excel at. You shouldn't pay 60 munis just to get two downgraded versions of sturmpioneers MP44s. They already got 4, and for free.




My favourite part: "The distance volks are supposed to excel at". Lmao. As if you go to wikipedia and look up Volksgrenadiers and it says they were 5 man squads excelling at far range combat.

They are supposed to excel at far range with Kar98ks. Obviously if you're upgrading them with StG44s they aren't supposed to excel at long range anymore lmao.

Also, do some research before you post. "zero improvement at long range" - if you saw Cruzz's post, you would have seen that Volk Kar98 DPS at close and far range is 3.46 and 1.81 respectively. The DPS of StG44 for close and far range is 8.14 and 2.4 respectively. A DPS of 1.81 to 2.4 is an increase of 32%. Hardly "zero".
22 Jun 2016, 03:05 AM
#7
avatar of LOLw0wwww

Posts: 48

It's a complete shock to OKW players right now without their shrek blobs. 4 vs 4 is hilarious watching them repeatedly run into MGs and AAHTs. The common OKW player has absolutely zero anti tank gun micro at this moment in time.

The game will grow and play styles will chnage. And the second OKW stops blabbing volks like the old days, they will be fine.

The USF mortar is ridiculous though and needs an immediate nerf.
22 Jun 2016, 03:24 AM
#8
avatar of TheGentlemenTroll

Posts: 963 | Subs: 1

You know you have a tier 0 at gun that was literally just buffed
22 Jun 2016, 03:49 AM
#9
avatar of SeismicSquall

Posts: 156

Yeah, not realy sure what Grens are for anymore.
22 Jun 2016, 03:54 AM
#10
avatar of kingdun3284

Posts: 392

It's a complete shock to OKW players right now without their shrek blobs. 4 vs 4 is hilarious watching them repeatedly run into MGs and AAHTs. The common OKW player has absolutely zero anti tank gun micro at this moment in time.

The game will grow and play styles will chnage. And the second OKW stops blabbing volks like the old days, they will be fine.

The USF mortar is ridiculous though and needs an immediate nerf.
Ths usf mortar is a copy of wehr mortar only. If it was op, then wehr mortar would be op too.
22 Jun 2016, 03:56 AM
#11
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4492

Ths usf mortar is a copy of wehr mortar only. If it was op, then wehr mortar would be op too.


According to cruzz, the USF mortar is longer range, faster, and more accurate than any other stock mortar in the game.
22 Jun 2016, 03:57 AM
#12
avatar of Nosliw

Posts: 515

Ths usf mortar is a copy of wehr mortar only. If it was op, then wehr mortar would be op too.


Wrong, please take some time to inform yourself on the current balance of the USF mortar and how it differs from the Wehrmacht mortar, and then come back and discuss it.
22 Jun 2016, 04:06 AM
#13
avatar of Omega_Warrior

Posts: 2561

The mortar is a bug. It's not actually meant to be that good, and wasn't like that in the mod.

I was kind of wondering why my mortar was doing so well for a while. I thought I was just getting real lucky at first.
22 Jun 2016, 04:10 AM
#14
avatar of TheGentlemenTroll

Posts: 963 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jun 2016, 03:57 AMNosliw


Wrong, please take some time to inform yourself on the current balance of the USF mortar and how it differs from the Wehrmacht mortar, and then come back and discuss it.


it has the same stats just bugged to have insane range/accuracy
22 Jun 2016, 04:15 AM
#15
avatar of PencilBatRation

Posts: 794

Just to clarify and summarize;

  • The M3 rush meta and somewhat the jeep is broken against OKW. Also investing on a P43 that early when you have to from a decent AI force to survive against inf rush is imba.

    The UC/M20 are somewhat manageable though and in general there is no problem mid game vs light tanks. Just remove the teching requirement for the Faust, fix the cost and it will be done.


  • The 'free' Medics were not a problem to begin with. Only the 'free' flak and 'free' repair pios needed teching. Paying the price of a King Tiger just for medics is stupid.:snfPeter:


And that is about it.


I think all factions should have their weaknesses.
Then relic should start reverting %99 of the changes they have implemented during the past year:megusta:

As for the panzerfaust
Why should it cost that much then, what is the rationale.


And regarding the STG, yes it is fun but it doesn't feel 'right'. Compared to other baseline inf upgrades, it is subpar.
22 Jun 2016, 04:16 AM
#16
avatar of LOLw0wwww

Posts: 48

It's going to be so entertaining when I wake up tomorrow morning and see all the wehraboos crying their little eyes out because they have to change their play style up and use anti guns - and volks into king tiger isn't winning them games anymore.

Then they will cry about how OP USF is and then they will go on coh2charts.com and pull the win percentage and show it as proof...only to have conveniently forgot how OKW was up to 90% win percentage...and when that was going down, it was a "l2p" issue.

Hahahahahahahahah. The roller coaster ride of coh continues.
22 Jun 2016, 05:20 AM
#17
avatar of A. Soldier
Social Media Manager Badge

Posts: 2717 | Subs: 2

No sense in the MG34 being the second shittiest MG in the game and requiring a rushed HQ truck down in order to get it. Other than that a few bugs here and there but overall I like the new additions to the OKW, volks feel kinda pointless tho if not for the Panzerfaust but I'm still not complaining, I just go for 2 or 3 Sturm squads now.
22 Jun 2016, 05:32 AM
#18
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

Let it die.

Nosliw already owned this thread and we can't take seriously such thread after X hours from patch made by top pudding-poster.

Let the patch live for few days and we gonna see.
This is not a thread but rather wish-poll or rage-thread.
22 Jun 2016, 05:42 AM
#19
avatar of PencilBatRation

Posts: 794

^Rage harder, aladdin. Your original steam account got banned for your toxic flameboyant attitude. Wishing for the same fate?:romeoHype::romeoHype::romeoHype:

No sense in the MG34 being the second shittiest MG in the game and requiring a rushed HQ truck down in order to get it. Other than that a few bugs here and there but overall I like the new additions to the OKW, volks feel kinda pointless tho if not for the Panzerfaust but I'm still not complaining, I just go for 2 or 3 Sturm squads now.


Yes 2x sturms with shrecks seem to be sufficient. But I mainly used them as AI in the past, so it is a pity now.
22 Jun 2016, 05:44 AM
#20
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

^Rage harder, aladdin. Your original steam account got banned for your toxic flameboyant attitude. Wishing for the same fate?:romeoHype::romeoHype::romeoHype:


Sure man, whatever. Already owned you yesterday.
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