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Updates on BALANCE PREVIEW MOD

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mortiferum
22 Apr 2016, 07:28 AM
#81
avatar of mortiferum

Posts: 571

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Apr 2016, 07:22 AMKatitof


Well, UKF can't heal with 0 micro :snfPeter:

Seriously, if you didn't seen side tech for OKW coming, you must've kept your head in your rear.

Plus, it was NEVER an issue up until now. What about all the people going mechanized first?

I'm really sorry, but OKW can't be the special snowflake forever, especially now that all the penalties are gone.

Time to make choices instead of rush and spam certain shit :snfPeter:


Sure, choices.

UKF chooses to spend 60 ammo and click ability.
USF chooses to spend 250 mp and 15 fuel (movable).
USSR chooses to spend 250 mp.
Ost chooses to spend 150 mp + 60 ammo.
OKW chooses to lock itself to 1 tier for a while, pay for truck, tech, then side grade for a total of 400mp + 55 fuel.

Balanced ))))))))))))))))))

It is not "special snowflake", even with FREE medic truck it was not as special as you make it out to be for the simple reason that it usually arrives later than the healing of other faction and it also "costs a bit more".

With your logics, USSR should have healing locked behind tier 1 in order to promote "choices". Since this is a preview mod, I will say I am against it. Does not mean it will stop me from playing OKW :D

PS: Rushing and spam certain shit sounds like USSR with it's Maxims before the increase in MP doesn't it?

)))))))))))
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mortiferum
22 Apr 2016, 07:36 AM
#82
avatar of mortiferum

Posts: 571

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Apr 2016, 07:25 AMVuther

All the healing methods save for UKF seem pretty proportionate to me.

USF: 250 MP, 10 FU
UKF: 30 MU on a unit that you will always have (granted it costs field presence to use by putting the squad out of the fight)
SU: 250 MP
Wehr: 150 MP, 60 MU
OKW: 100 MP, 15 FU

OKW Medical Supplies could probably still use a cost boost though.


100 mp + 15 fuel is reasonable if you look at it as is, but the point I am raising is that the combined cost of the truck + tier 1 + side grade + "the cost of going tier I instead of tier II" makes that decision more expensive.

It would be like locking USSR field hospital behind tier 1.

Totally agree with you about medical supply though. If the cost is a bit lower rather than a consistent bleed of ammo, it will be better.
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Firesparks
22 Apr 2016, 07:42 AM
#83
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Apr 2016, 07:28 AMmortiferum


Sure, choices.

UKF chooses to spend 60 ammo and click ability.
USF chooses to spend 150 mp and 15 fuel (movable).
USSR chooses to spend 250 mp.
Ost chooses to spend 150 mp + 60 ammo.
OKW chooses to lock itself to 1 tier for a while, pay for truck, tech, then side grade for a total of 400mp + 55 fuel.

Balanced ))))))))))))))))))

It is not "special snowflake", even with FREE medic truck it was not as special as you make it out to be for the simple reason that it usually arrives later than the healing of other faction and it also "costs a bit more".

With your logics, USSR should have healing locked behind tier 1 in order to promote "choices". Since this is a preview mod, I will say I am against it. Does not mean it will stop me from playing OKW :D

PS: Rushing and spam certain shit sounds like USSR with it's Maxims before the increase in MP doesn't it?

)))))))))))


USF ambulance is 250 mp and 15 fuel.


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Katitof
22 Apr 2016, 07:42 AM
#84
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17891 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Apr 2016, 07:36 AMmortiferum


100 mp + 15 fuel is reasonable if you look at it as is, but the point I am raising is that the combined cost of the truck + tier 1 + side grade + "the cost of going tier I instead of tier II" makes that decision more expensive.

It would be like locking USSR field hospital behind tier 1.

Totally agree with you about medical supply though. If the cost is a bit lower rather than a consistent bleed of ammo, it will be better.

The combined cost means it will literally come 30 seconds later then it does now and will put tech costs in-line with other armies.

If you'll be bleeding uncomprehendingly in that 30 seconds, then maybe YOLO charge less.

Seriously, if that REALLY was ANY kind of concern, where were you when OKW released like that?
Where were you when OKW was revamped?

This is not a valid point, this is just denial or bargaining phase.

Don't worry, you'll come to the acceptance eventually.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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Bananenheld
22 Apr 2016, 07:42 AM
#85
avatar of Bananenheld

Posts: 1593 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Apr 2016, 07:28 AMmortiferum


Sure, choices.

UKF chooses to spend 60 ammo and click ability.
USF chooses to spend 150 mp and 15 fuel (movable).
USSR chooses to spend 250 mp.
Ost chooses to spend 150 mp + 60 ammo.
OKW chooses to lock itself to 1 tier for a while, pay for truck, tech, then side grade for a total of 400mp + 55 fuel.

Balanced ))))))))))))))))))

It is not "special snowflake", even with FREE medic truck it was not as special as you make it out to be for the simple reason that it usually arrives later than the healing of other faction and it also "costs a bit more".

With your logics, USSR should have healing locked behind tier 1 in order to promote "choices". Since this is a preview mod, I will say I am against it. Does not mean it will stop me from playing OKW :D

PS: Rushing and spam certain shit sounds like USSR with it's Maxims before the increase in MP doesn't it?

)))))))))))

Never argue on theorycrafting with dontplaythatgameitof, he will Trump you due his 9k post experience:sibPheasant:
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mortiferum
22 Apr 2016, 07:43 AM
#86
avatar of mortiferum

Posts: 571

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Apr 2016, 07:42 AMFiresparks


USF ambulance is 250 mp and 15 fuel.


Typo corrected, sorry.
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rymetyme09
22 Apr 2016, 07:46 AM
#87
avatar of rymetyme09

Posts: 75

Do people forget Captain can speed boost your productions ?
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mortiferum
22 Apr 2016, 07:47 AM
#88
avatar of mortiferum

Posts: 571

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Apr 2016, 07:42 AMKatitof

The combined cost means it will literally come 30 seconds later then it does now and will put tech costs in-line with other armies.

If you'll be bleeding uncomprehendingly in that 30 seconds, then maybe YOLO charge less.

Seriously, if that REALLY was ANY kind of concern, where were you when OKW released like that?
Where were you when OKW was revamped?

This is not a valid point, this is just denial or bargaining phase.

Don't worry, you'll come to the acceptance eventually.


1) It will come later than literally 30 seconds compared to other forms of healing
2) I do not bleed uncontrollably, but RNjesus is not merciful and having a squad of 4 sturmpio models alive while all down to last silver of health each puts it out of the fight longer than rifles down to same amount of health since the timing of healing
3) I was not playing OKW when OKW was first released, nor was I playing much during the time that the big change to OKW took place.
4) Valid point is based on who thinks what, this is neither denial or bargaining. This is a forum thread used for discussion of the preview mod, and I made a statement as to why I believe something is not balanced. It can be debated upon.
5) Focus on the topic at hand, and either respond with evidence contrary to why it is balanced/ unbalanced for OKW healing to cost more rather than statements like "Deal with it" or "You will come to the acceptance eventually".
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mycalliope
22 Apr 2016, 07:50 AM
#89
avatar of mycalliope

Posts: 721

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Apr 2016, 06:31 AMFiresparks


this is the tech cost of all four factions currently in game, note the faction with the lowest manpower cost.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1g5csCZt9UrVnNy-k9w8DRh1F6Rzeu7hMCLXZoxSdNRk/edit#gid=0

this is the tech cost of all four factions in the preview. Note who is still the faction with the lowest manpower cost.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XzA2COrqCsnBD1kn1PClzUnN6rxr1cOt2sJxZnK3Oss/edit#gid=0

hmmm except certain cases okw is on par with otherfaction but still the medic truck and mechanic upgrade still gets delayed why not just replace it with munitions instead of manpower and fuel.

edit: omg situation is even worse strategy wise for okw..okw is getting gang banged should rename okw to ost 0.5
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LanaaaDangerZone
22 Apr 2016, 07:53 AM
#90
avatar of LanaaaDangerZone

Posts: 1

Love the changes!
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mortiferum
22 Apr 2016, 07:53 AM
#91
avatar of mortiferum

Posts: 571

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Apr 2016, 07:50 AMmycalliope

hmmm except certain cases okw is on par with otherfaction but still the medic truck and mechanic upgrade still gets delayed why not just replace it with munitions instead of manpower and fuel


Well, these are the solutions I can think of. Unsure as to consequences though.

1) Leave as it is, truck = healing.
2) Cost changes to healing. OKW floats MP and needs MP sinks, not fuel sinks. 250 mp on par with USSR/ 1 squad of volksgren is not unreasonable.
3) Sturmpio gets healing package earlier/ stock
4) Rework Sturmpio healing package to mirror UKF Infantry section healing

*I did forget to mention UKF does need to tech up for medical kit though.
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Aerohank
22 Apr 2016, 07:53 AM
#92
avatar of Aerohank

Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Apr 2016, 01:38 AMPablonano
That SU-85 nerfs... Its an overexpensive bad joke Jackson


Doesn't look like a nerf to me at all.

It just turns the SU85 from a medium-tank destroyer to a heavy-tank sniper. This is good as now it has a more defined role that is not simply 'one and a half SU76 rolled into 1'.
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DAZ187
22 Apr 2016, 07:53 AM
#93
avatar of DAZ187

Posts: 465

these okw changes might actually backfire. i hate shreks but. another unit needs to be added into the tech tree. to mimic pgrens
1. Relic bans, not me. 2. It stands in the rules: If you are banned more often, the duration increase and can lead in the end to permaban 3. The Case is bigger as you guys think. So pls step 1 step away pls. 4. I am not a player in the 4vs4 cup, because of RL work.
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Firesparks
22 Apr 2016, 07:55 AM
#94
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Apr 2016, 07:53 AMDAZ187
these okw changes might actually backfire. i hate shreks but. another unit needs to be added into the tech tree. to mimic pgrens


pgren is overrated. Wehr counter light vehicle with a combination of Pak+faust+222.


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mycalliope
22 Apr 2016, 07:58 AM
#95
avatar of mycalliope

Posts: 721

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Apr 2016, 07:53 AMmortiferum


Well, these are the solutions I can think of. Unsure as to consequences though.

1) Leave as it is, truck = healing.
2) Cost changes to healing. OKW floats MP and needs MP sinks, not fuel sinks. 250 mp on par with USSR/ 1 squad of volksgren is not unreasonable.
3) Sturmpio gets healing package earlier/ stock
4) Rework Sturmpio healing package to mirror UKF Infantry section healing

*I did forget to mention UKF does need to tech up for medical kit though.

Leave it as it is there is nothing broken(dont fix what aint broken) its just usual allied crys on forum and still after all these nerfs they will still complain and relic will still listen to them rather than use their own brain (usf already with 70 % winrate)..and they will continue to do so
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mycalliope
22 Apr 2016, 07:58 AM
#96
avatar of mycalliope

Posts: 721

what are the stats on okw healing and reapir vs other factions..??
also firesparks i need those dps charts of yours from google doc.
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Katitof
22 Apr 2016, 07:59 AM
#97
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17891 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Apr 2016, 07:47 AMmortiferum


1) It will come later than literally 30 seconds compared to other forms of healing

And no one ever said anything else.
You'd knew if you'd wiped the tears and read what I actually write.

2) I do not bleed uncontrollably, but RNjesus is not merciful and having a squad of 4 sturmpio models alive while all down to last silver of health each puts it out of the fight longer than rifles down to same amount of health since the timing of healing

You sound like with current med truck you always retreat with full model squads without casualties.
Please, be serious here :snfBarton:


3) I was not playing OKW when OKW was first released, nor was I playing much during the time that the big change to OKW took place.

I did(yes Banana, much to your surprise, I still do as you can tell by my rankings not being hidden).
It wasn't an issue back then, it won't be an issue now.

Again, people going mechanized always had late healing, they did fine. 30 seconds later won't make any difference to the models, only to economy and decision making.


5) Focus on the topic at hand, and either respond with evidence contrary to why it is balanced/ unbalanced for OKW healing to cost more rather than statements like "Deal with it" or "You will come to the acceptance eventually".

Evidence:
Now:
OKW has free additions to teching.
OKW has cheapest teching in game.
In the mod:
OKW doesn't have freebies as the only faction in game, because there is no economical reason for it(no resource penalty)
OKW gets side tech costs, which put their tech costs in line with all other armies with fuel and especially menpower costs.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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Australian Magic
22 Apr 2016, 08:02 AM
#98
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

Nice changes.

Like it.
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Firesparks
22 Apr 2016, 08:03 AM
#99
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Apr 2016, 07:58 AMmycalliope
what are the stats on okw healing and reapir vs other factions..??
also firesparks i need those dps charts of yours from google doc.


edited my signature to include the link.


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general_gawain
22 Apr 2016, 08:09 AM
#100
avatar of general_gawain

Posts: 919

Nearly all changes are great. A lot of them are adressing what was discussed multiple times in the forums.

Love how the boring USF early game got broken up. 60mm mortar in starting building and 50.cal anti vehicle MG in Lieutenant tier will really make early game a lot more interesting for USF while not mirroring the other factions. Maybe time to try them again (haven't played them for about 6 month).
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