to me the weapon drop is more of a emergency thing than actually being in the build order.
I only get MG if I get captain and the enemy start blobbing hard, or ATs If I get LT and get surprised without any zookas.
same thing applies to the air support, its only useful in emergency times
Airborne and Pathfinders lower CP ?
15 Mar 2016, 16:49 PM
#21
Posts: 930
15 Mar 2016, 16:55 PM
#22
Posts: 1585 | Subs: 1
It's not in theory... it's just basic math.
You are assuming reinforcing a squad, like RE's, is easy to do and costs nothing in terms of map control.
You also ignore that tech structure in USF does not really allow you to skip whole tiers. I will always get the captain, and then get the 57-mm, so giving it to me as a commander call-in means it has to be a really good deal or its just a waste of a spot.
Also don't forget that the power of the 0.50 cal is its arrival time. It has to arrive shortly after the Lt tier opens to get the most punch. 2 cps is already pretty late, and the 4 cp AT gun is in a similar place. By the time these unlock I usually have the tier open, and if I don't its because I supplemented it another way.
Another problem, calling in a 57-mm immediately to battle, requiring a recrew on field, being at only 3 men (so very vulnerable to indirect) is simply not as effective as building one and bringing it up.
I also find I have to drop these so close to my base, wait for them to land and unpack, and then crew them I might as well just bought them straight out.
15 Mar 2016, 17:25 PM
#23
Posts: 297
pathfinders arent specially made to fight, so instead of search how to improve that point would be better to improve for what are they made: recon and set airlanding zones with his beacon and ocasionally support other units sniping wounded guys, at least in my opinion.
15 Mar 2016, 17:29 PM
#24
Posts: 930
pathfinders arent specially made to fight, so instead of search how to improve that point would be better to improve for what are they made: recon and set airlanding zones with his beacon and ocasionally support other units sniping wounded guys, at least in my opinion.
In my experience they do a lot of damage, even more than paras, problem is, they are made of paper, so you need to keep them at a distance all times.
also, never get more than one pathfinder. call them in early and keep them alive, put BAR on them and just keep them firing.
late game they are so useful for sniping flaktrucks and heavy tanks using ATs or jacksons.
15 Mar 2016, 17:41 PM
#25
Posts: 17891 | Subs: 8
pathfinders arent specially made to fight, so instead of search how to improve that point would be better to improve for what are they made: recon and set airlanding zones with his beacon and ocasionally support other units sniping wounded guys, at least in my opinion.
That isn't really worth 280 mp they cost.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
15 Mar 2016, 17:55 PM
#26
Posts: 40
They could indeed buff the whole commander a lot if they just made the drops come with the crew, like they did in CoH 1.
I would like to see cheaper Paths for sure, it's not even the call-in cost but the reinforce cost that actually seems too high, I mean Falls actually reinforce for 38 now, but that's way too high for Paths.
As stated, I think that 0CP Paths and 2CP Airborne could change USF for the better, making a whole new early game possible, I especially like the combo of the long range Paths with the medium range Rifles.
It would also be possible to already place beacons (maybe improve those too, making bigger landing zones possible) and use the Doc at it's full potential.
I would like to see cheaper Paths for sure, it's not even the call-in cost but the reinforce cost that actually seems too high, I mean Falls actually reinforce for 38 now, but that's way too high for Paths.
As stated, I think that 0CP Paths and 2CP Airborne could change USF for the better, making a whole new early game possible, I especially like the combo of the long range Paths with the medium range Rifles.
It would also be possible to already place beacons (maybe improve those too, making bigger landing zones possible) and use the Doc at it's full potential.
16 Mar 2016, 02:29 AM
#27
Posts: 297
That isn't really worth 280 mp they cost.
Dunno really, if i look at it as a combat unit i would agre, but having camo, extra LoS, radar/beacon and "enforcer tactician" i dont know if it should cost any lower, but dont really know.
16 Mar 2016, 06:41 AM
#28
4 Posts: 444
If Pathfinders could spawn out of buildings they would be worth their price.
And the AT gun should be 3CP, it arrives too late atm, forcing you to go captain.
And the AT gun should be 3CP, it arrives too late atm, forcing you to go captain.
 | Playercard of Looney | |||||||||||||||||||
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16 Mar 2016, 07:57 AM
#29
Posts: 17891 | Subs: 8
Dunno really, if i look at it as a combat unit i would agre, but having camo, extra LoS, radar/beacon and "enforcer tactician" i dont know if it should cost any lower, but dont really know.
JLI have that and much, much more(put salvage instead of beacon), same price, incomparably better scaling and combat performance.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
16 Mar 2016, 10:52 AM
#30
Posts: 297
But jagers doesnt have camo from the start, but they come out of buildings, something i cant trule understand in terms of manpower add, because partisans being performing as his price like a normal call in unit. Aswell you forget that Jagers are more for harass on the back lines than actually scouts, since his skills are made for: take out the mortar--->recicle it, cap the cut off------>Booby trap it. Pathfinders are more focushed on:get them to a good spoot for an eagle nest and then camo in some point to give LoS. Maybe they could use a slighly cost decrease, but i never found the situation were i had a 1vs1 grenadiers/pathfinders, even more now that everyone goes calliope/persing
JLI have that and much, much more(put salvage instead of beacon), same price, incomparably better scaling and combat performance.
16 Mar 2016, 11:35 AM
#31
Posts: 17891 | Subs: 8
But jagers doesnt have camo from the start, but they come out of buildings, something i cant trule understand in terms of manpower add, because partisans being performing as his price like a normal call in unit. Aswell you forget that Jagers are more for harass on the back lines than actually scouts, since his skills are made for: take out the mortar--->recicle it, cap the cut off------>Booby trap it. Pathfinders are more focushed on:get them to a good spoot for an eagle nest and then camo in some point to give LoS. Maybe they could use a slighly cost decrease, but i never found the situation were i had a 1vs1 grenadiers/pathfinders, even more now that everyone goes calliope/persing
Lack of camo from the start is irrelevant.
USF have nothing that would allow that camo potential to be used, pathfinders don't have any kind of camo ambush bonus and don't need to close in on anything, they have the camo "just because" as I don't see any tactical reason it would give any kind of advantage for them, they can't be used as self reliant squad and rifles can't camo, USF doesn't have any indirect weapons which would use the sight, they camo just like sov snipers, so you can't even scout stealthy.
I'm not saying the camo is useless, but it definitely doesn't have any purpose.
Recon pathfinders at least can call-in arty.
Bottom line is, JLI have a clear role and perform for the cost while pathfinders are more expensive, 4 men rifles with potentially better long range dps.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
16 Mar 2016, 11:58 AM
#32
Posts: 3600 | Subs: 1
Also you should remember that USF is disadvantaged in term of CP timing compare to Axis factions.
Building a tier give 1/4 CP, since USF doesn't build anything, your CPs come later...
Building a tier give 1/4 CP, since USF doesn't build anything, your CPs come later...
16 Mar 2016, 17:46 PM
#33
Posts: 297
Lack of camo from the start is irrelevant.
USF have nothing that would allow that camo potential to be used, pathfinders don't have any kind of camo ambush bonus and don't need to close in on anything, they have the camo "just because" as I don't see any tactical reason it would give any kind of advantage for them, they can't be used as self reliant squad and rifles can't camo, USF doesn't have any indirect weapons which would use the sight, they camo just like sov snipers, so you can't even scout stealthy.
I'm not saying the camo is useless, but it definitely doesn't have any purpose.
Recon pathfinders at least can call-in arty.
Bottom line is, JLI have a clear role and perform for the cost while pathfinders are more expensive, 4 men rifles with potentially better long range dps.
Did some test, and they seem to be pretty similar with the exception that Jaegers are slighly better at fight. In the only thing that pathfinders are better is basically on killing wounded since the Jaeger sniper has really long times between shots. Jagers are a bit expensiver, but pathfinders could still use some cost decrease to more or less 260 manpower cost. I wont find too logic go lower because his camo is the combat one,they camo sometimes between shots, something that reduces the chances of them getting killed in the middle of a fight by just hold the fire while other units get the agro.
Off-topic I aswell took some time to test and ironically found that penals are better than riflemen at almost every range and level unless at vet3 long range (seriously, at vet 0/1 CQC it was rape) and that tiger ACE is better than KT
16 Mar 2016, 17:55 PM
#34
Posts: 2693 | Subs: 1
The airdropped weapons should cost munitions rather than manpower. In the current form the weapon drops are borderline useless as you just don't have the manpower as USF.
16 Mar 2016, 18:15 PM
#35
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
The airdropped weapons should cost munitions rather than manpower. In the current form the weapon drops are borderline useless as you just don't have the manpower as USF.
The minimum 100 MP-gate to use them would be a lot less painful then.
16 Mar 2016, 18:52 PM
#36
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
The airdropped weapons should cost munitions rather than manpower. In the current form the weapon drops are borderline useless as you just don't have the manpower as USF.
| !4CP - Air Resupply Operation 150 "Air support will automatically drop medical and weapon supply crates on the targeted friendly territories. Infantry units will move and reinforce faster in friendly territory." |
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
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