T70 view range = 70
View range is 35 (45 at vet 3 iirc). 70 is with recon mode. I'm not trying to argue, just providing some stats.
Ostheer is on life support
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28 Jan 2016, 16:10 PM
#141
Posts: 175
View range is 35 (45 at vet 3 iirc). 70 is with recon mode. I'm not trying to argue, just providing some stats.
28 Jan 2016, 16:48 PM
#142
Posts: 392
Calling the Panther weak is one huge mistake.
You can't flank it,you can hardly penetrate it and people want it to have the tiger's AoE.
Let's not talk about vet 2 which turns the Panther into a heavy tank...
Werhmacht doesn't lack anything,they have one of the best units in the game,they don't lack Anti infantry vehicles cause they have the flame truck,Anti armour is also something they have plenty of it and happens to be the best in the game.
What they lack is a durable mainline infantry, if you give them an anti armour vehicle you automatically kill the AEC,t-70,Stuart,m20 and AA halftruck.
If anything this would simply allow wehrmacht to be on the offencive with strong defensive tools.
If something must be done is to simply nerf snipers and transfer that power to grenadiers while also delaying abit vehicle rushing that werhmacht can reasonably react to them.
You can't flank it,you can hardly penetrate it and people want it to have the tiger's AoE.
Let's not talk about vet 2 which turns the Panther into a heavy tank...
Werhmacht doesn't lack anything,they have one of the best units in the game,they don't lack Anti infantry vehicles cause they have the flame truck,Anti armour is also something they have plenty of it and happens to be the best in the game.
What they lack is a durable mainline infantry, if you give them an anti armour vehicle you automatically kill the AEC,t-70,Stuart,m20 and AA halftruck.
If anything this would simply allow wehrmacht to be on the offencive with strong defensive tools.
If something must be done is to simply nerf snipers and transfer that power to grenadiers while also delaying abit vehicle rushing that werhmacht can reasonably react to them.
28 Jan 2016, 17:03 PM
#143
Posts: 1165 | Subs: 1
The balance is such shit right now, its made the game stale and boring.
Not patching anything for the duration of ESL is the worst excuse I've ever heard. Just say you are working on DoW3.
Addition: OST is on life support but OKW isn't much better, its just a better choice than OST.
Not patching anything for the duration of ESL is the worst excuse I've ever heard. Just say you are working on DoW3.
Addition: OST is on life support but OKW isn't much better, its just a better choice than OST.
28 Jan 2016, 17:45 PM
#144
Posts: 738
Comet is really not as good against infantry as people make it out to be, and it comes pretty damn late when you already have access to panthers/Tiger. Against heavy tanks it lacks the extra pen that the panther has that makes the Panther vs Churchill much more in favour of axis than Comet vs Tiger.
P4 and cromwell outperform that 50+180 fuel waste of space for what they give you in an average 1vs1.
As for Ost T3, maybe make the Ostwind and P4 a hair cheaper but really when you compare them to their UKF counterparts (Centaur, Cromwell) are they really that bad? Vet P4's are already a pain to deal with as USF (cue flash backs of 57mm's/Zooks pinging all day long as innocent Ambulances explode in the background).
Ost have their weaknesses but they also have their BS OP units, Panzerwerfer and their sniper being pretty obvious contenders. While they also have a lot of doctrinal tools to fill said weaknesses (Ostruppen, Puma+command tank, 30 muni vehicle smoke, Tiger, and hey cookiez they even have their own "tank commander" esc upgrade in spotting scopes) I think that would at least be worth adding to the OP
P4 and cromwell outperform that 50+180 fuel waste of space for what they give you in an average 1vs1.
As for Ost T3, maybe make the Ostwind and P4 a hair cheaper but really when you compare them to their UKF counterparts (Centaur, Cromwell) are they really that bad? Vet P4's are already a pain to deal with as USF (cue flash backs of 57mm's/Zooks pinging all day long as innocent Ambulances explode in the background).
Ost have their weaknesses but they also have their BS OP units, Panzerwerfer and their sniper being pretty obvious contenders. While they also have a lot of doctrinal tools to fill said weaknesses (Ostruppen, Puma+command tank, 30 muni vehicle smoke, Tiger, and hey cookiez they even have their own "tank commander" esc upgrade in spotting scopes) I think that would at least be worth adding to the OP
28 Jan 2016, 17:45 PM
#145
Posts: 985 | Subs: 2
OKW/BRIT need major changes. They are already spoken for thousands of post.
SOV/WER perhaps minor changes. But WER no is on life support imo.
SOV/WER perhaps minor changes. But WER no is on life support imo.
28 Jan 2016, 17:48 PM
#146
Posts: 875 | Subs: 2
In my opinion, the only things that come to mind would be giving the brumbar better pathfinding and maybe better range, while the lefh 10.5 cm arty could use less spread on the barrages; otherwise, I'd say Ostheer would be just fine.
28 Jan 2016, 20:22 PM
#147
Posts: 154
I'd still like to bring things down to Ostheer levels with some nerfs rather than buff things up to the over performing units. I love the Ost design.
28 Jan 2016, 20:23 PM
#148
Posts: 3103 | Subs: 1
I'd still like to bring things down to Ostheer levels with some nerfs rather than buff things up to the over performing units. I love the Ost design.
I greatly fear buffing Ostheer significantly would be power creep.
28 Jan 2016, 20:43 PM
#149
9 
Posts: 1194 | Subs: 29
I think the 222 could do with a slight buff. I was thinking a +40hp buff and a buff to its mg so it is better vs snipers and inf.
I'm not sure about changes in other areas. Let the nerfs come in other areas (eg both tactical support commanders) and see where it lies after that
I'm not sure about changes in other areas. Let the nerfs come in other areas (eg both tactical support commanders) and see where it lies after that
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28 Jan 2016, 20:51 PM
#150
Posts: 1072
In my opinion, the only things that come to mind would be giving the brumbar better pathfinding and maybe better range, while the lefh 10.5 cm arty could use less spread on the barrages; otherwise, I'd say Ostheer would be just fine.
I agree here. I think maybe making a more mobile light AT option (better 222) would be nice as well.
Brummbarrs are supposed to be Osts breakthrough unit that can deal with heavily Fortified positions but their pathing issues prevent them from seeing action.
Ostheer is considered to be the best combined arms faction by most people. This is because all except 2 units (p4 and tiger) are either AI or AT. This makes for more difficult decision making for the ost player. Do I make more paks or mgs. Stugs or ostwinds. Panthers or brummbarrs. Lmg grens or pgrens with shrecks. Elephant or CP4.
This (imo) is GOOD design. More hard counters that require thinking, strategy, and risk/reward. The alternative is to have "jack of all trades" units like Sherman's riflemen volks p4s croms comets ISU and (although weak at both) t34/76s. For their time frames you also have AEC, T70, stuarts 222. All these units are both AI and AT units. Little decision must take place to buy these units.
I'd like to see units with more defined roles because it would encourage what ost does the most --> combined arms.
Note: ppl complain about panthers AI because they compare it to the jack of all trades equivalents like EZ8, t34/85, comet.
Brummbarrs exist only in my dreams.
28 Jan 2016, 21:15 PM
#151
Posts: 1891
Ostheer sniper should be harder to micro, they need more solid ways of fighting early vehicles that doesn't involve giving them something OP or skill less.
The Fascisti Will Pay.
28 Jan 2016, 21:26 PM
#152
Posts: 230
Permanently BannedWhatever nerfs hit ost sniper need to hit the british sniper which comes at most 2 minutes later.
28 Jan 2016, 22:34 PM
#153
Posts: 23
Yes, now you know what it feels like to play SOV T2 since release... mortar, mg, AT gun can all be stolen. Same for vicker's.
Hmm didnt notice (since beta) that SOV have just 4 man crue at support weapons like OST
Oh the old days where SOV had to spam ZiS to survive p4 onslaught every game just to lose to gren blob.
YES!!! "ZiS spam" in "old days" but if you survive to "p4 onslaught" you are realy good player, many others (include me) strugle and complain about flame half-track.
The AT light vehicle everyone wants here looks just like a su-76 to me. more homogeneity or less? up to you guys. I hear both sides complaining for both.
After Buff of su-76 IMO is too good to be T2 unit
well placed pak with a gren covering the rear for a faust will do the job. People who talk about sight... well that's why I use vision blockers like buildings and trees. they always want to flank the pak, so I just predict the route/area he'll send his AEC. I actually let my pak shoot infantry just so he knows which way it's facing and bait him in the direction i want.
Impresive idea(s)/advice(s) lets take 1 by 1
- pak + grens as guard for pak = 600MP (somebody corect prize tag if necesary) siting and do nothing ... so if you are pushed hard and you need 2 paks = 1200 MP
- is good idea to put grens behind so support weapon is first in line to slaughter house when infantry apper instead of vehicles
- vision blocker are also shot blockers - we complain about 222 is inefective counter to light-tanks and you advice us to put pak behind shot blocker to make its arc of fire short as possible thx i try this ASAP
- from my point of view is bit stupid hide long range unit (like grens) that loose to almoust to all opponents at close range behind sight/shot blocker and then fight at close (plus pass free cover in house to opponent is ridiculous)
- you predict so you are some kind of oracle? or this go like roulete 50 to 50?
You know if brit rushes AEC, he'll probably have only 3 infantry units at best assuming he has half the map. I'm sure OST is UP in 1v1 but its units are still good.
- from your own 1V1 experience?
The sh*t OP says about panther.... you know it has 3 MGs right? Infantry cannot use cover against it because I'll just crush the cover with my tank and then let it chew down models with my 3 mgs.
- Im sure that Jacson can chew panter much faster than panter can chew vet3 rifles
Complaining about tiger not tanking is like complaining about pershing not tanking... same idea. oh wait, isn't churchill the same? gets penetrated by everything but has an even crappier main gun but costs the same? same thing... QQ
- replace my Tiger with pershing PLS PLS PLS (i prefer fast tanks to wipe squads on retreat)!!! OR maybe badass mortar/flamethrower instead of hull MG for doctrinal tiger. Insane HP pool, granades from hatch, side MGs for nondoctrinal ... oh wait ... there in no nondoctrinal tiger WTH!!!
If you are talking about TA then yes TA is(was?) hardcore
28 Jan 2016, 23:05 PM
#154
Posts: 468
Please learn to play.
i would trade 4 man mg42 over 6 man maxim anyday. maxim is offensive unit and mg42 has wide suppression arc which fits OST defensive style.
SU-76 is not T2. It's T3.
Lol, if you're setting up an ambush because you saw a light vehicle coming. or you retreated a squad. you sure like camping if you're just going to sit somewhere with 1200 mp. gg.
1 pak is more than enough to destroy a light vehicle along with a faust. do you not play OST? you can build bunkers and MGs to defend but nooooooooo. you're just going to assume that the ONLY thing I have is 1 gren and 1 pak vs a blob of infantry and a light tank roaming around... GG, man. GGGGG
I'm not pointing my pak into a vision blocker. I'm using the blocker to hide my grens so that I can faust him when he tries to flank. Oh gawd, why do i have to explain strategy to you? go watch replays for a change.
Please go play UKF. Go rush an AEC. Tell me what you can make up to that point. GGKTHXBYE
Insane HP pool that doesn't do anything except tank damage? Hello? Pershing has lower hp than a tiger, has no mg upgrade, has no blitz, rarely bounces rounds.
Sure I'll give you a tiger with a p4 main gun and flamer so you can be happy except everyone else who uses it. it'll lose 100% of the time against pershing, isu152, is2, because it can no longer penetrate anything.
You sound like one of those whiny kids that say "i want everything on my tank with no downsides!"
Please give me a fast, heavily armored, high hp, heavy AT gun, along with a flamer, that can solo the game. Sorry bro, please go play CoD if you love 1 unit heroes so much.
You can continue to reply but i'm just going to ignore all posts from here on out because you seem like a troll and i don't talk to trolls.
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28 Jan 2016, 23:31 PM
#155
Posts: 1072
190 ppl browsing this thread. Wow
28 Jan 2016, 23:41 PM
#156
Posts: 162
190 ppl browsing this thread. Wow
They all can't get a grasp of this pile of nonsense here.
28 Jan 2016, 23:51 PM
#157
Posts: 17892 | Subs: 8
Out of 144 members and guests online, 195 of them are watching this thread. 
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
28 Jan 2016, 23:57 PM
#158
Posts: 556
Guest matter of opinion, I think the German regular army is spot on in terms of balance. If anything I would argue it's the best example out of the lot of army's on how a good all around army it is. They dont lack anything.
29 Jan 2016, 00:10 AM
#159
6 
Posts: 33
where can I find the esl casts?
Last week's EU cup
Last week's NA cup
Haven't watched the NA cup yet, though the EU one featured the first(!) appearance of UKF in a tourney stream (and they didn't get rekt - though the mid game did look a bit hairy). I'm told Paul did very well with them in NA.
29 Jan 2016, 01:04 AM
#160
Posts: 320
Hi Cookies. I can see what you are saying, but I feel like this wasn't as big of a problem before the AEC buff. The AEC is the gross vehicle that comes out at like 5:30-6:00 minutes. I'm not sure how I'd feel about the 222 being capable of damaging vehicles like the stuart or the M20.
Reason for this is because I'm not sure how USF would ever counter that damn sniper if it wasn't for their access to strong light vehicles. However Ostheer clearly gets rolled the hardest by light vehicles.
At the same time Ostheer peformed very strongly in those tournaments. I don't know, I say the problem stems from the AEC, touch that first and see what happens. Even when I use the AEC I feel bad for my opponent as it pounds them into fine dust.
Reason for this is because I'm not sure how USF would ever counter that damn sniper if it wasn't for their access to strong light vehicles. However Ostheer clearly gets rolled the hardest by light vehicles.
At the same time Ostheer peformed very strongly in those tournaments. I don't know, I say the problem stems from the AEC, touch that first and see what happens. Even when I use the AEC I feel bad for my opponent as it pounds them into fine dust.
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