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Did the Panzerwerfer really need a damage buff?

8 Jan 2016, 19:12 PM
#1
avatar of Mr.Smith

Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17

TL;DR: The PRE-BUFF Panzerwerfer is stat-by-stat SLIGHTLY BETTER than the CURRENT Katyusha. The MASSIVE damage buff, on top of the added suppression was an overkill.

Before you rush and say "No, it was very weak before", ask yourselves the following:
1) What were the stats of the Panzerwerfer that were buffed
2) How does the PRE-BUFF Panzerwerfer compare to the CURRENT Katyusha
3) How does the CURRENT Panzerwerfer compare to the CURRENT Katyusha

You can access the PRE-BUFF Panzerwerfer stats at coh2-stats.com


Rocket science for Dummies (also applies to all explosives in the game):


AoE effect damage on open ground (edited 18 January)

Damage vs garrisons

So... what has changed since 23 June?


Panzerwerfer is completely broken OP vs garrisons

The far damage multiplier has increased from 0.1 to 0.3 (that's 3x buff)

The damage multiplier in the mid-zone is EVEN HIGHER at 0.5 (edited 18 January)

If you were curious, the Calliope also shares a 0.5 damage multiplier for the middle zone.

The Panzerwerfer received a raw damage buff, even though the scatter of the Panzerwerfer is SLIGHTLY BETTER than that of the Katyusha*.


EDITED TO ADD (9 Jan): The maximum scatter (worst-case) of the Panzerwerfer has gone down from 20 to 17

8 Jan 2016, 19:20 PM
#2
avatar of NinjaWJ

Posts: 2070

nice post. i remember they even had to one down the damage on the panzerwerfer several months ago.
8 Jan 2016, 19:21 PM
#3
avatar of Australian Magic

Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2

Not much to say. PzWerfer and Calliope are OP.

Katyusha is perfect example how mobile arty should work.
Punishes blobs by heavy bleed and some wipes but not full wipe.
Medicore agasint single squad. Can infilct damage but leaves space for retreat.
Even if you don't want to run, there is a chance it won't wipe your squad.

In other words, katy is powerful but leaves place for retreat or surviving (especially for crew weapons).

PzWerfer and Calliope don't give your crew weapons any chances, plus they gonna wipe a single squad in second.
8 Jan 2016, 19:30 PM
#4
avatar of vasa1719

Posts: 2635 | Subs: 4

Permanently Banned
Nice work ! Interesting who will be defend PW now OpieOP.
8 Jan 2016, 20:23 PM
#5
avatar of Just easy

Posts: 110

I don't think anybody is going to defend the PW, i will say i want it better than it was before june though.
8 Jan 2016, 20:38 PM
#6
avatar of Mr.Smith

Posts: 2636 | Subs: 17

I don't think anybody is going to defend the PW, i will say i want it better than it was before june though.


Don't forget that the Panzerwerfer also received a suppression buff since then.

I don't know how much damage a Panzerwerfer rocket should deal. However, given the firing patterns of the Katyusha and the Panzerwerfer, I cannot find any SINGLE reason why a Panzerwerfer rocket should deal more raw damage than a Katyusha rocket. The firing pattern difference alone should account for the squad size discrepancy (if it doesn't, then modify the pattern instead).
8 Jan 2016, 20:44 PM
#7
avatar of pigsoup
Patrion 14

Posts: 4301 | Subs: 2

Not much to say. PzWerfer and Calliope are OP.

Katyusha is perfect example how mobile arty should work.
Punishes blobs by heavy bleed and some wipes but not full wipe.
Medicore agasint single squad. Can infilct damage but leaves space for retreat.
Even if you don't want to run, there is a chance it won't wipe your squad.

In other words, katy is powerful but leaves place for retreat or surviving (especially for crew weapons).

PzWerfer and Calliope don't give your crew weapons any chances, plus they gonna wipe a single squad in second.


+1
8 Jan 2016, 21:12 PM
#8
avatar of Cabreza

Posts: 656

Not much to say. PzWerfer and Calliope are OP.

Katyusha is perfect example how mobile arty should work.
Punishes blobs by heavy bleed and some wipes but not full wipe.
Medicore agasint single squad. Can infilct damage but leaves space for retreat.
Even if you don't want to run, there is a chance it won't wipe your squad.

In other words, katy is powerful but leaves place for retreat or surviving (especially for crew weapons).

PzWerfer and Calliope don't give your crew weapons any chances, plus they gonna wipe a single squad in second.


Well put. Hopefully relic pays attention to this.
8 Jan 2016, 22:19 PM
#9
avatar of __deleted__

Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7

Not much to say. PzWerfer and Calliope are OP.

Katyusha is perfect example how mobile arty should work.
Punishes blobs by heavy bleed and some wipes but not full wipe.
Medicore agasint single squad. Can infilct damage but leaves space for retreat.
Even if you don't want to run, there is a chance it won't wipe your squad.

In other words, katy is powerful but leaves place for retreat or surviving (especially for crew weapons).

PzWerfer and Calliope don't give your crew weapons any chances, plus they gonna wipe a single squad in second.


Agreed.

Also calli have OP in its name
Have great survivability
And it can destroy any okw hq by 2 volleys
8 Jan 2016, 23:44 PM
#10
avatar of vasa1719

Posts: 2635 | Subs: 4

Permanently Banned
So if PW are fine like write some guys :D, should we buff katysha to PW level or calliOP :O.
9 Jan 2016, 00:17 AM
#11
avatar of Jadame!

Posts: 1122

Rocket arty is new ISUs. Need heavy nerfs.
9 Jan 2016, 01:45 AM
#12
avatar of Hiflex

Posts: 43

So if PW are fine like write some guys :D, should we buff katysha to PW level or calliOP :O.

Why should that happen? Then you also need to add 2 extra models for every ostheer infantry unit.
It's way easier to wipe any ostheer infantry unit in comparison to soviet units(excluding partysans) with artillery(even with tanks etc, but that's not the topic now).
This game is not "company of mirrors" or "company of soviets have .75 winrate in 1v1 and ost has .60, so let us just buff soviets more"
#logic
aaa
9 Jan 2016, 02:21 AM
#13
avatar of aaa

Posts: 1486

Does relic suppoorts this game still?
9 Jan 2016, 03:37 AM
#14
avatar of frostbite

Posts: 593

mr smith ur a goon bro, ive been talking about this for ever, but ur detail is wicked thx
9 Jan 2016, 04:14 AM
#15
avatar of The_Courier

Posts: 665

Agreed. The Pwerfer is OP and only the prohibitive cost of T4 keeps it from breaking the game further.

The Katyusha acts as artillery should. Punishes blob and camping, leaves single squads standing if they retreat. The Pwerfer can easily wipe individual squads and destroys garrisons in one volley; this is not how artillery should behave.

The Calliope is in a similar situation, and its higher price tag is compensated by more HP (more significant than one might think; one Panther drive by annihilates the Katy instantly, Calliope can sustain 3 hits) and the fact that, while doctrinal, it doesn't require teching which is one of the main points that limit Katyusha/Pwerfer usage.
9 Jan 2016, 12:07 PM
#16
avatar of vasa1719

Posts: 2635 | Subs: 4

Permanently Banned
jump backJump back to quoted post9 Jan 2016, 01:45 AMHiflex

Why should that happen? Then you also need to add 2 extra models for every ostheer infantry unit.
It's way easier to wipe any ostheer infantry unit in comparison to soviet units(excluding partysans) with artillery(even with tanks etc, but that's not the topic now).
This game is not "company of mirrors" or "company of soviets have .75 winrate in 1v1 and ost has .60, so let us just buff soviets more"
#logic


USF have 5 man squad, brits have 4/5 man squad the same numbers like OKW infatry. So if PW push hard 5 mand squads, why katysha can not do it if PW are fine ?
aaa
9 Jan 2016, 12:33 PM
#17
avatar of aaa

Posts: 1486

Why do they keep realising OP units every patch?
Axis sniper cloak isnt it a bug? And okw light tank timing/armor and very low cost of okw tech tree. How those arent bugs?
Any explanation from relic?

aaa
9 Jan 2016, 12:34 PM
#18
avatar of aaa

Posts: 1486

Pw has nothing to do with a blobs. It constantly wipes individual capping squads even without vision. Even if you retreat squad it still gets wiped.

Only thing that keeps SU in game is mines. Without them it would be impossible to play vs any faction. In 2v2+ axis dont care at all about loss\retreat of squad. This is why the more players involved the higher axis winrates.
9 Jan 2016, 13:22 PM
#20
avatar of RedT3rror

Posts: 747 | Subs: 2

leave the panzerwerfer alone


and playercad pls




What's the problem? Don't you want your favourite 1 click 1 wipe unit getting nerfed, do you?
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