Emplacements and British indirect fire needs a massive overhaul, along with almost all the vanilla British commanders that are just a mess and barely utilized.
Factor in stuff like overpriced/crap units; AEC, Bren carrier, valentine, sexton, commandos, PIAT's, heavy engineers etc. Also stuff like the lack of AT snare, flamer infantry and heavy upgrade costs for infantry sections (bolster, grenades, brens) that barely keep up with axis infantry that get their upgrades for free and suddenly you have a very gimmick reliant and fragile faction.
But now brit gimmicks have been nerfed into the ground (croc, glider, off map arty, centuar, crit shot) UKF have been exposed for how fundamentally flawed as a faction they actually are.
Massive overhaul needed, but I don't think anything will happen at this stage from relic, the most we can expect is yet another nerf to the "overpowered" Churchill that costs the same as a tiger.
Brits need overhaul next
13 Dec 2015, 18:40 PM
#21
Posts: 738
13 Dec 2015, 19:23 PM
#22
Posts: 32
Hahahahaah, sure dream on. Why on earth have red flares if there is no chance to react due to it nigh on comming down instantly? I remember some people actually argueing for keeping the absurd launch Artillery strike the brits had that required no vision and came down without warning flares (apart from sound 3-4 seconds in advance). Your remark reminds me of that absurdity.
all of the 4 other factions have a form of on map arty with no smoke, the brits really need a viable one to.
13 Dec 2015, 19:28 PM
#23
Posts: 253
Motor pit needs more hitpoints, everything else is fine.
13 Dec 2015, 20:13 PM
#24
Posts: 1891
UKF design is perfect, only problem is units and weapons underperforming.
Base artillery needs buff, AEC needs buff, PIATs need buff, things of that nature.
Base artillery needs buff, AEC needs buff, PIATs need buff, things of that nature.
The Fascisti Will Pay.
13 Dec 2015, 20:31 PM
#25
Posts: 284
Sure PIATs suck... they should be 40MU panzerschrecks... im sure that would make the whole game much more fun... jesus...
13 Dec 2015, 21:45 PM
#26
Posts: 830
all of the 4 other factions have a form of on map arty with no smoke, the brits really need a viable one to.
Yes but dropping it within fog of war, without any restrictions was the problem there. People defended it like they do with all the insane and beyond stupid abilities within this game. The problem with this game lies just as much with the players that play it as with the people that developped and now 'balance' it.
14 Dec 2015, 00:52 AM
#27
Posts: 32
Yes but dropping it within fog of war, without any restrictions was the problem there. People defended it like they do with all the insane and beyond stupid abilities within this game. The problem with this game lies just as much with the players that play it as with the people that developped and now 'balance' it.
theres always going to be something broken, bullshit british abilties were keeping them in this game they do nothing special without them and lack alot of tools.
14 Dec 2015, 01:04 AM
#28
Posts: 1384
Emplacements are really powerful when used properly. Mortar pit is great against infantry and has huge range and good rate of fire, bofors is great vs anything that gets near that isn't a medium tank+ with an excellent barrage ability, 17lber 2 shots medium tanks at crazy long distances. Forward assembly is also really useful. Seriously, emplacements are extremely good when used properly.
Clear buildings with base howitzers (Pyrotechnic tommies are GOOD), grenades, flamethrower WASP, mortar pit/bofors barrage or a light gammon bomb.
AEC isn't strictly a luchs/222 counter, and is quite capable of harassing enemy structures (OKW trucks, bunkers, caches etc) and taking on enemy vehicles. It remains useful even against medium armour due to its smoke ability and engine destroy ability and okay damage. It's even passable against infantry and is good enough to scare off squads that don't have any AT.
PIAT's require micro to use effectively (Attack ground.), but even without them you have an amazing 6lber AT gun, 30 muni mines and if a bofors can work just as well vs a 222. (Prevents him from chasing you on retreat, if not killing him outright if unexpected.)
They also have soft AT from Vickers vet 2 and Sniper.
Brits are completely fine. If you're really struggling Special Weapons Regiment has Tankhunter tommies and the godlike halftrack of doom. (Also has a crocodile if you're really, really struggling yet somehow make it to late game.)
Bofors barrage has no smoke and is basically a panzerwerfer barrage with a little less damage. They also have the Sexton which is admittedly underperforming.
These would be reasonable changes.
A conservative touch is the best way to balance this game.
Clear buildings with base howitzers (Pyrotechnic tommies are GOOD), grenades, flamethrower WASP, mortar pit/bofors barrage or a light gammon bomb.
AEC isn't strictly a luchs/222 counter, and is quite capable of harassing enemy structures (OKW trucks, bunkers, caches etc) and taking on enemy vehicles. It remains useful even against medium armour due to its smoke ability and engine destroy ability and okay damage. It's even passable against infantry and is good enough to scare off squads that don't have any AT.
PIAT's require micro to use effectively (Attack ground.), but even without them you have an amazing 6lber AT gun, 30 muni mines and if a bofors can work just as well vs a 222. (Prevents him from chasing you on retreat, if not killing him outright if unexpected.)
They also have soft AT from Vickers vet 2 and Sniper.
Brits are completely fine. If you're really struggling Special Weapons Regiment has Tankhunter tommies and the godlike halftrack of doom. (Also has a crocodile if you're really, really struggling yet somehow make it to late game.)
all of the 4 other factions have a form of on map arty with no smoke, the brits really need a viable one to.
Bofors barrage has no smoke and is basically a panzerwerfer barrage with a little less damage. They also have the Sexton which is admittedly underperforming.
UKF design is perfect, only problem is units and weapons underperforming.
Base artillery needs buff, AEC needs buff, PIATs need buff, things of that nature.
These would be reasonable changes.
A conservative touch is the best way to balance this game.
14 Dec 2015, 01:26 AM
#29
Posts: 665
Arrive almost instantly? Can some say 45 munition FOO artillary?
BAD IDEA
Well OK I misspoke, not instantly but it shouldn't take 10 seconds to land. 4-5 should make it able to maybe hit something once in a blue moon.
14 Dec 2015, 01:35 AM
#30
1 Posts: 98
Speaking from a 2v2 perspective, Brits are fairly balanced against OST. The problem is they require a ton of side upgrades just to keep up with OKW which delays your tanks and puts you in a terrible spot MP-wise. They don't need much but a good place to start would be:
Reverting IS nerf while keeping vet changes
Combining bolster squad with grenade research or reducing teching cost for both
Improving suppression on Vickers while reducing overall damage output
Reduce cost for AEC
Reverting IS nerf while keeping vet changes
Combining bolster squad with grenade research or reducing teching cost for both
Improving suppression on Vickers while reducing overall damage output
Reduce cost for AEC
14 Dec 2015, 02:21 AM
#31
Posts: 959
step1: make mortar pit doctrial and switch it with regular mortar
+1000
14 Dec 2015, 02:26 AM
#32
Posts: 1248
legit they are retarded, emplacements pointless (good emplacements are bad) even though they are a big part of their concept. Sniper spam to stay in the game is stupid, no building clearing mechanism, 75 fuel AEC to counter 222/luchs since PIAT is literally garbage, base howi's do less damage than a tripwire etc..
meh
14 Dec 2015, 11:56 AM
#33
Posts: 28
I dare not play the British anymore. Which sucks as I've been looking forward to them for so long.
It seems that everything this faction had that was any good, relic nerfed into the ground, but didn't bother buffing the shit units/abilities.
It seems that everything this faction had that was any good, relic nerfed into the ground, but didn't bother buffing the shit units/abilities.
14 Dec 2015, 12:52 PM
#34
Posts: 232
I'd say there's a pretty strong argument that the Brits have been on the receiving end of too many straight up nerfs without consideration given to the faction as a whole. The fact that the Royal Artillery Regiment remains in such a poor state is testament to this. Similarly, the stats on coh2chart show that brits were hit harder than any other faction in the December patch - win rates and games played plummeted and stayed low.
There are quite a few tools in the british arsenal that simply don't work that well, or are so situational they can't be used effectively.
The UC for example. It's meant to fill anti-MG, anti-building and anti-sniper roles - all of which are something the brits badly need early game - but it has terrible mobility (worse after the pathing change imo), is countered by the existence of grens, can't be repaired until vet 1 or a tier upgrade and has low enough health that a single raketen or AT gun shot is enough to kill it if it has sustained even light damage. After all that you're left with a unit that is only useful at the very start of the game. I'd cynically point out that Relic aren't going to move the faust to vet 1 to allow the UC to work better either.
As for emplacements, you'll notice that with the possible exception of the Bofors, the complaints aren't usually about damage output but about survivability and other issues. Emplacements are countered by indirect fire, I get it - but indirect fire is essentially risk free against them and a guaranteed kill after which they get to continue firing at the rest of your troops. The problem here is that the only way for brits to counter indirect fire is to break the enemy lines - which is particularly hard if you have 20 pop cap tied up in a 17 pounder.
I'd highly doubt Relic will give brits a mobile mortar since it might require modelling and voiceover work. What I would hope instead is that they give the base 25 pounders some power behind them as endgame artillery. That and make it easier to call in. After all, you generally want to shell things that you aren't already in range to chuck a grenade at.
There are quite a few tools in the british arsenal that simply don't work that well, or are so situational they can't be used effectively.
The UC for example. It's meant to fill anti-MG, anti-building and anti-sniper roles - all of which are something the brits badly need early game - but it has terrible mobility (worse after the pathing change imo), is countered by the existence of grens, can't be repaired until vet 1 or a tier upgrade and has low enough health that a single raketen or AT gun shot is enough to kill it if it has sustained even light damage. After all that you're left with a unit that is only useful at the very start of the game. I'd cynically point out that Relic aren't going to move the faust to vet 1 to allow the UC to work better either.
As for emplacements, you'll notice that with the possible exception of the Bofors, the complaints aren't usually about damage output but about survivability and other issues. Emplacements are countered by indirect fire, I get it - but indirect fire is essentially risk free against them and a guaranteed kill after which they get to continue firing at the rest of your troops. The problem here is that the only way for brits to counter indirect fire is to break the enemy lines - which is particularly hard if you have 20 pop cap tied up in a 17 pounder.
I'd highly doubt Relic will give brits a mobile mortar since it might require modelling and voiceover work. What I would hope instead is that they give the base 25 pounders some power behind them as endgame artillery. That and make it easier to call in. After all, you generally want to shell things that you aren't already in range to chuck a grenade at.
14 Dec 2015, 13:11 PM
#35
1 Posts: 613
- All emplacements need to be cheaper considering they don't have infinite brace structure anymore. We're talking about reducing every emplacement by like 25% cost at least.
- Churchill needs a major cost decrease because it can't penetrate shit by the time it arrives and it's AI is barely good. 150 FU is fine.
- Making teching more expensive because UKF can get the first tank out before any other faction
- Make base Howitzers more accurate, or increase AOE
- Make AEC cheaper
- Increase Sten gun DPS, but not to the same extent as before. Or decrease Commando cost.
- Decrease glider cost to like 50 MP or 100 max
- Decrease Crocodile price to 200 FU and 500 MP because its main gun is useless, only thing good about it is the flamethrower and HP. It's like a KV-8.
- Comet needs more AI. For a 185 FU tank, it should at least have better AI.
- Flame mortar anti-building ability is useless because it can't target HQs, so make it cheaper.
- Give the Sexton the same stats as the buffed 25 pounders
- Give option to destroy UKF emplacement for 50% resources
- If the price isn't decreased, emplacements are too weak to flames. Make them a little more resistant. They got like triple nerfed with the flame changes 1-4 patches ago. They are easy to kill with flamethrowers, flamegrenades, LEIGs, mortar, or brute force. And give them more HP considering their brace structure isn't infinite.
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14 Dec 2015, 16:31 PM
#36
Posts: 728
- All emplacements need to be cheaper considering they don't have infinite brace structure anymore. We're talking about reducing every emplacement by like 25% cost at least.
- Churchill needs a major cost decrease because it can't penetrate shit by the time it arrives and it's AI is barely good. 150 FU is fine.
- Making teching more expensive because UKF can get the first tank out before any other faction
- Make base Howitzers more accurate, or increase AOE
- Make AEC cheaper
- Increase Sten gun DPS, but not to the same extent as before. Or decrease Commando cost.
- Decrease glider cost to like 50 MP or 100 max
- Decrease Crocodile price to 200 FU and 500 MP because its main gun is useless, only thing good about it is the flamethrower and HP. It's like a KV-8.
- Comet needs more AI. For a 185 FU tank, it should at least have better AI.
- Flame mortar anti-building ability is useless because it can't target HQs, so make it cheaper.
- Give the Sexton the same stats as the buffed 25 pounders
- Give option to destroy UKF emplacement for 50% resources
- If the price isn't decreased, emplacements are too weak to flames. Make them a little more resistant. They got like triple nerfed with the flame changes 1-4 patches ago. They are easy to kill with flamethrowers, flamegrenades, LEIGs, mortar, or brute force. And give them more HP considering their brace structure isn't infinite.
+1
Also wasp flamer imo was over nerfed, yeah it was nuts before but now it just dosent do enough dmg to be worth it. After all its really the only way for ukf to deal with early mgs or infantry in buildings.
They need to fix bugs with comet too, white phos sometimes not going off and causing the tank to do stupid stuff. Sometimes the normal rounds makes a sound like it should have pened the enemy tank but there is 0 dmg.
14 Dec 2015, 17:23 PM
#37
Posts: 1891
I think pyrotechnic grenade should just fire 1 accurate and really powerful shot from each howitzer. It would be a super Satchel Charge that's tech dependent. (I know that description fits Gannon Bomb as well.)
Sexton, just make it a Priest clone but slightly cheaper and less efficient.
Mortar emplacement is annoying but potent.
Only other on-map arty for UKF that makes no sense is the lack of a light mortar. That was a trademark weapon of infantry sections, as well as *someone correct me* air burst rifle grenades.
Sexton, just make it a Priest clone but slightly cheaper and less efficient.
Mortar emplacement is annoying but potent.
Only other on-map arty for UKF that makes no sense is the lack of a light mortar. That was a trademark weapon of infantry sections, as well as *someone correct me* air burst rifle grenades.
The Fascisti Will Pay.
14 Dec 2015, 17:56 PM
#38
Posts: 111
15 Dec 2015, 06:59 AM
#39
Posts: 2561
All the other 3 factions
all of the 4 other factions have a form of on map arty with no smoke, the brits really need a viable one to.
USF
15 Dec 2015, 07:36 AM
#40
Posts: 1930
Tommies:
the problem with balancing tommies is how to handle their 4 men size in the early game and 5 men size later on. Either they are going to decent late game and under-powered early on, or decent early game and overpowered later.
the early game problem is compounded by the overpriced vickers HMG and weak bren carrier. If those two units units were better, it would better justified the weakness of their early tommies.
so with that in mind:
increase british starting manpower by 40 mp: they are deducted 280 mp in the beginning for the 4 men tommies, but the squad is worth 240mp in the beginning at most.
lower vicker mg cost to 260 mp: The vicker trade suppression for killing power in comparison to the mg42. It should not cost 20 mp more.
increase bren carrier hp to 280-320: it needs to be durable enough to survive until sapper. The act of getting the bren carrier itself also delay sapper due to fuel cost, so the bren carrier need to be durable. Despite a light vehicle trasnport, it lack sight bonus, reinforcement ability, or the ability to act as a fire platform. I needs to be durable.
the buff to the vickers and bren carrier basically mean the british need to rely on these two units to carry them before they get tech up.
the problem with balancing tommies is how to handle their 4 men size in the early game and 5 men size later on. Either they are going to decent late game and under-powered early on, or decent early game and overpowered later.
the early game problem is compounded by the overpriced vickers HMG and weak bren carrier. If those two units units were better, it would better justified the weakness of their early tommies.
so with that in mind:
increase british starting manpower by 40 mp: they are deducted 280 mp in the beginning for the 4 men tommies, but the squad is worth 240mp in the beginning at most.
lower vicker mg cost to 260 mp: The vicker trade suppression for killing power in comparison to the mg42. It should not cost 20 mp more.
increase bren carrier hp to 280-320: it needs to be durable enough to survive until sapper. The act of getting the bren carrier itself also delay sapper due to fuel cost, so the bren carrier need to be durable. Despite a light vehicle trasnport, it lack sight bonus, reinforcement ability, or the ability to act as a fire platform. I needs to be durable.
the buff to the vickers and bren carrier basically mean the british need to rely on these two units to carry them before they get tech up.
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