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The new pop cost of infantry

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atouba
11 Dec 2015, 04:05 AM
#1
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Posts: 482

Why wehr poineers cost 6 pop now while previously is 5? It's an unfair nerf. 2 less than shocktroops at 8? If relic really think 6 is fine pls give them faster repair speed. They always need to build 3 poineers to fast repair their late heavy tanks and now the pop increases...:foreveralone:

The US doesn't need the Rear Echelon Troops to repair their vehicles and can be abuse to spam carry zooks/BARs but still cost 5 pop? lol. Comepared to the busiest wehr poineers, they live a life of ease.:D


"All infantry entities will now have a population of 1 with the difference added onto their squad population extension."

So why:
Obersoldaten’s overall population cost increased from 8 to 10
Population per entity unchanged at 2
Population per squad increased from 0 to 2

And 4 men Obers which comes out after tech upgrades cost 10 pop, while 6 men shocktroops which comes out after 2 CP cost 8 pop? Im not saying the obers is not fine but the shocktroops is fine at 10 so why buff them? Ony 1 more than Grens/Rifles?
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Horasu
11 Dec 2015, 04:16 AM
#2
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Posts: 279

I'm not gonna comment on the pioneers, but Obers perform at the level of 10 population, definitely, if you consider that mainline infantry is 7. And regarding shock troops, it's not about the amount of men in a squad, it's about performance. Otherwise, shouldn't you be complaining that conscripts and grenadiers cost the same, too? Regardless of squad number, I do agree that 8 pop for shocks are too low. 9 would be ideal.
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Appleseed
11 Dec 2015, 04:34 AM
#3
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Posts: 622

i think shock should have 10 pop same as obers, it got smoke and very good CQC and good armor. if grens have no lmg, shocks can 1 on 3 sqs easy. but obers can't 1 on 3 conscripts even with lmg upgrade.
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atouba
11 Dec 2015, 04:52 AM
#4
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Posts: 482

But why increase the pop of OST poineers? Is the performance too good? The poineers is the busiest worker as the same as soviet combat engineers. They both have to retreat for building. They both have poor combat performance and suffers from slowest repair speed.Just wonder why the poineers cost 6 pop now. Always sucks at late games because you have no pop space to build more poineers.
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Teryuo
11 Dec 2015, 18:04 PM
#5
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Why did they bother to make the pioneer's population cap higher?

Did they increase the combat engineer's to 6 as well?

What about rear echelon?
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atouba
12 Dec 2015, 12:52 PM
#6
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jump backJump back to quoted post11 Dec 2015, 18:04 PMTeryuo
Why did they bother to make the pioneer's population cap higher?

Did they increase the combat engineer's to 6 as well?

What about rear echelon?

No the combat engineer is still 5

The Rear echelon has been increased to 5
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Junaid
12 Dec 2015, 13:11 PM
#7
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Posts: 509

Its obviously piospam guys. They're still trying to curb pioneer spam :p
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medhood
12 Dec 2015, 13:18 PM
#8
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Pioneers are probably the 2nd best non-doctrine Engineer unit after Sturmpioneers thanks to their flamethrowers and increased sight so Im not surprised to see them at 6 pop instead of 5 ( compared to echelons and soviet engineers )
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RMMLz
12 Dec 2015, 13:43 PM
#9
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jump backJump back to quoted post12 Dec 2015, 13:18 PMmedhood
Pioneers are probably the 2nd best non-doctrine Engineer unit after Sturmpioneers thanks to their flamethrowers and increased sight so Im not surprised to see them at 6 pop instead of 5 ( compared to echelons and soviet engineers )


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medhood
12 Dec 2015, 13:45 PM
#10
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jump backJump back to quoted post12 Dec 2015, 13:43 PMRMMLz


Sappers say Hi.

Royal Engineers dont have extra line of sight or flamethrowers and while they have the anvil upgrade thats locked behind tech

Pioneers have their line of sight and flamethrowers which is used and is effective through out the entire game

Royal Engineers while a good unit dont have as much utility as pioneers in my opinion and the utility they do have can also be fulfilled by other infantry units of the UKF kind of like Rear Echelon and even Rear Echelon can get flamer throwers

and while the wasp on the Bren Carrier does exist that thing tends to have a short life span

Royal Engineers are probably only useful when you get triple lmgs which will cost you 190 munitions but you can also give those lmgs to your Infantry Sections kinda like Rear Echelon you can give them bars or give it to Riflemen the choice is up to you
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Appleseed
12 Dec 2015, 14:53 PM
#11
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jump backJump back to quoted post12 Dec 2015, 13:45 PMmedhood

Royal Engineers dont have extra line of sight or flamethrowers and while they have the anvil upgrade thats locked behind tech

Pioneers have their line of sight and flamethrowers which is used and is effective through out the entire game

Royal Engineers while a good unit dont have as much utility as pioneers in my opinion and the utility they do have can also be fulfilled by other infantry units of the UKF kind of like Rear Echelon and even Rear Echelon can get flamer throwers

and while the wasp on the Bren Carrier does exist that thing tends to have a short life span

Royal Engineers are probably only useful when you get triple lmgs which will cost you 190 munitions but you can also give those lmgs to your Infantry Sections kinda like Rear Echelon you can give them bars or give it to Riflemen the choice is up to you


royal engineer is great, it got almost same CQC power as SP with only 210mp, unlike CE or RE or PIO that any mainline infantry will win in CQC with them if they don't have upgrade, while royal engineer can beat any mainline infantry in CQC. before the HRE cost, i use to get 3-4 of them and blob them to fight OKW, it works great.
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Vuther
12 Dec 2015, 15:19 PM
#12
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jump backJump back to quoted post11 Dec 2015, 04:34 AMAppleseed
i think shock should have 10 pop same as obers, it got smoke and very good CQC and good armor. if grens have no lmg, shocks can 1 on 3 sqs easy. but obers can't 1 on 3 conscripts even with lmg upgrade.

If the Grens are controlled in way that's basically retarded, yes Shocks can. So can Obers if the Scripts attack-move to their heavy cover over open ground.
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Grumpy
12 Dec 2015, 15:21 PM
#13
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Posts: 1960

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Dec 2015, 04:52 AMatouba
But why increase the pop of OST poineers? Is the performance too good? The poineers is the busiest worker as the same as soviet combat engineers. They both have to retreat for building. They both have poor combat performance and suffers from slowest repair speed.Just wonder why the poineers cost 6 pop now. Always sucks at late games because you have no pop space to build more poineers.


They do have better LOS and slightly better combat abilities than either RE or CE's. If you dropped the pop cap, then wouldn't it make sense to buff the combat abilities of the other engineers to make it fair? If Relic does that with enough units, then eventually the game will be like Warcraft II where all of the units were basically the same but just had different skins. Also, RE's now cost 200 so Pio's are still cheaper on games lasting less than a half hour.

Shocks seem like a really good squad for 8 pop cap. Maybe that is Relic making up for all of Soviet T1 being garbage.
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RMMLz
12 Dec 2015, 15:44 PM
#14
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jump backJump back to quoted post12 Dec 2015, 13:45 PMmedhood

Royal Engineers dont have extra line of sight or flamethrowers and while they have the anvil upgrade thats locked behind tech

Pioneers have their line of sight and flamethrowers which is used and is effective through out the entire game

Royal Engineers while a good unit dont have as much utility as pioneers in my opinion and the utility they do have can also be fulfilled by other infantry units of the UKF kind of like Rear Echelon and even Rear Echelon can get flamer throwers

and while the wasp on the Bren Carrier does exist that thing tends to have a short life span

Royal Engineers are probably only useful when you get triple lmgs which will cost you 190 munitions but you can also give those lmgs to your Infantry Sections kinda like Rear Echelon you can give them bars or give it to Riflemen the choice is up to you


Aside from LoS, Sappers are better. 210MP, best repair, very good damage. I would take sappers' stens over pions MP40s any day. Sappers are also in a faction that doesn't have to build stuff so they are basically front line units. I'm not saying they are OP or anything, just saying they are the best "engineer" unit in my opinion.

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Tobis
12 Dec 2015, 15:57 PM
#15
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The pio pop should go back to 5 and shocks should probably be 9. Changes are good though.
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elchino7
12 Dec 2015, 18:31 PM
#17
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Maybe a mistake or they didn't remember what popcap units used to have :P

PD: Pio should go back to 5 and Shocks to whatever they were before.
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wafive
12 Dec 2015, 19:05 PM
#18
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Posts: 36

yea, pioneer should back into 5 pop cap, while the smg's of royal engineer even can deal with infantry, unlike pioneer, so it's fine in 6 pop cap

also call same of call-ins infantry and team weapon pop cap is still trouble
like 13 HM-120mm
5 M2HB HMG
8 Fallschirmjager
6 Panzerfusilier
4 smg partisans
8 AT partisans xD
and ect
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ferwiner
12 Dec 2015, 19:19 PM
#19
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What if pios stay at 6 to account for their exceptionel utility but ostheer gets munition upgrade to bunkers that repairs vehicles? That way players wouldnt need 3 of them and ostheer would get overrall faction buff to account for not being changed while all the other factions (apart from brits but relic hates them) grew strong.
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medhood
13 Dec 2015, 00:36 AM
#20
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Posts: 621

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Dec 2015, 15:44 PMRMMLz


Aside from LoS, Sappers are better. 210MP, best repair, very good damage. I would take sappers' stens over pions MP40s any day. Sappers are also in a faction that doesn't have to build stuff so they are basically front line units. I'm not saying they are OP or anything, just saying they are the best "engineer" unit in my opinion.
So what you're saying is Royal Engineers fill the same role as Infantry Sections except cheaper while Pioneers have their own unique role of being a scout and Garrison clearer woth Grenadiers and Panzer Grenadiers doing the front line unit roles
Royal Engineers also have the task of repairing and maintaining the emplacements they build so they can get busy on that behalf aswell as vehicles so if you gave em double brens they wont be using them while an infantry section could be making use of the Brem in battle
Other then the usual engineer stuff they dont really bring anything thats unique from the rest of the army unlike pioneers
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