I think the building mechanics found in the 3 new factions is really how CoH should function. The launch teams requiring engineers to run all over the map feels more like a chore than a reward for working harder. Not to mention a population sink (minor, but does pull down manpower income).
It also puts them Ina funky spot where they do not start with a combat unit, whereas the other factions get a head start with their combat units toward the objective. And for factions that can build MGs and whatnot right off the bat, that is a huge advantage.
Every game I have to do a silly chicken dance of:
Engineers cap
Retreat
Build
Move out
Retreat
Build
Or some variation. And should they die by a squad-wipe mortar, then I have to dump even more manpower and time to tech.
To me it just feels like a relic (heh) of old gameplay.
Engineer-less teching for soviets and Ost?
7 Dec 2015, 09:35 AM
#1
Posts: 174
7 Dec 2015, 09:49 AM
#2
Posts: 301
Hello.
You might be right as there is very few point point in building placement when teching as OST/SOV (or build twice the same one). I remember in DOW2 that teching was only a matter of upgrade T1-T2-T3 something like UKF.
For OST-SOV it means 2 things : it withdraw a squad from the battlefield fot the build time (+retreat+comeback) and (as you said) it is a huge loss, should you loose all your engineer squad in combat something much more affordable in other factions.
That beeing said, Engeneers are not really combat squads (unless flame-upgraded) but offers so much utility compared t other builders that they should spend a lot of time on the battlefield, capping there and building things.
I think i do agree with you. Old gamelplay sticking.
Kozo.
You might be right as there is very few point point in building placement when teching as OST/SOV (or build twice the same one). I remember in DOW2 that teching was only a matter of upgrade T1-T2-T3 something like UKF.
For OST-SOV it means 2 things : it withdraw a squad from the battlefield fot the build time (+retreat+comeback) and (as you said) it is a huge loss, should you loose all your engineer squad in combat something much more affordable in other factions.
That beeing said, Engeneers are not really combat squads (unless flame-upgraded) but offers so much utility compared t other builders that they should spend a lot of time on the battlefield, capping there and building things.
I think i do agree with you. Old gamelplay sticking.
Kozo.
...For conflict is the great teacher,
and pain... the perfect educator...
and pain... the perfect educator...
7 Dec 2015, 09:57 AM
#3
Posts: 174
Hello.
You might be right as there is very few point point in building placement when teching as OST/SOV (or build twice the same one). I remember in DOW2 that teching was only a matter of upgrade T1-T2-T3 something like UKF.
For OST-SOV it means 2 things : it withdraw a squad from the battlefield fot the build time (+retreat+comeback) and (as you said) it is a huge loss, should you loose all your engineer squad in combat something much more affordable in other factions.
That beeing said, Engeneers are not really combat squads (unless flame-upgraded) but offers so much utility compared t other builders that they should spend a lot of time on the battlefield, capping there and building things.
I think i do agree with you. Old gamelplay sticking.
Kozo.
I wouldn't want engineers gone at all, but removing the need to retreat opens up so many opportunities to use them for other functions (such as barb wire) as a combat-adjacent squad early on.
Because right now, there really is no way to use their utility early on because they have to be running back to base all the time.
7 Dec 2015, 10:03 AM
#4
Posts: 2819
I agree actually. Never really thought about that.
All posts made are about situations in 2v2's. Not a 1v1 player.
7 Dec 2015, 10:45 AM
#5
Posts: 174
I don't know if it would mess up balance too much in 1v1s (I don't play those) but I don't think removing the engineer/pioneer base tether would do too much damage .
It's something I'd like to see, but would probably require new base structures or base grid (to build on) which, I Imagine is hard to do.
It's something I'd like to see, but would probably require new base structures or base grid (to build on) which, I Imagine is hard to do.
7 Dec 2015, 10:47 AM
#6
Posts: 1653
+1 please no more return for engineers, so frustrating.
7 Dec 2015, 12:44 PM
#7
Posts: 1891
I like the old factions style. Just time you building structures when you retreat your engies from combat.
The Fascisti Will Pay.
7 Dec 2015, 13:42 PM
#8
Posts: 4314 | Subs: 7
It looks nice but I voted for no.
Imagine russian tier 2 from start while engineers go to cap key building . I dont thinks its good.
Or ostheer cannot rush building with enginners to get key building for mg and have grens in no time.
I think it like eating a cake and still having a cake. Not game breaking but still annoying for other factions.
However if we make tier 1 for ostheer and 1,2 for russians engineer buildable and others selfbuild it would be fine.
Imagine russian tier 2 from start while engineers go to cap key building . I dont thinks its good.
Or ostheer cannot rush building with enginners to get key building for mg and have grens in no time.
I think it like eating a cake and still having a cake. Not game breaking but still annoying for other factions.
However if we make tier 1 for ostheer and 1,2 for russians engineer buildable and others selfbuild it would be fine.
7 Dec 2015, 14:03 PM
#9
Posts: 17895 | Subs: 8
I don't mind returning them to base, what I mind is that if I want to save up and tech all at once, I'm down a squad for the next 4 minutes.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
7 Dec 2015, 14:23 PM
#10
Posts: 378
The engineer and pioneer are required to construct building to tech, but in return, they can be upgraded with flamer. Other faction cannot unless specific commander is selected.
7 Dec 2015, 14:33 PM
#11
Posts: 17895 | Subs: 8
The engineer and pioneer are required to construct building to tech, but in return, they can be upgraded with flamer. Other faction cannot unless specific commander is selected.
I would argue if upgrading to flamer counterweights dual LMGs or nades or faster repair rates or actual combat potential and combat scaling on top of repair scaling.
CEs and Pios got nothing on RETs, spios and REs who can be actual combat troops with actual combat scaling.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
7 Dec 2015, 14:38 PM
#12
Posts: 245
it is kind of annoying sometimes I will even buy 2 engineers,which has its perks regardless of teching. This problem seems to be for Soviets and ostheer only.
For this I will usually put my engineers in combat situations purposely to kind of synergize the time for teching.
For this I will usually put my engineers in combat situations purposely to kind of synergize the time for teching.
7 Dec 2015, 14:58 PM
#13
Posts: 4630 | Subs: 2
Make first building buildable by Engis, but while the first building is complete, there will be free "engis" from it (like medics or engis from MedHQ/MechHQ) which can only build builinds in base.
7 Dec 2015, 14:59 PM
#14
Posts: 322 | Subs: 1
I like the old factions style. Just time you building structures when you retreat your engies from combat.
This
7 Dec 2015, 17:35 PM
#15
8 Posts: 2470
i don't think it's necessarily a bad thing but there could be a quality of life issue there when compared to the newer factions.
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