I figured I'd share my thoughts on this. The current veterancy for vehicles like the M3, Sd.Kfz.250, ect... have rather useless level 3 Veterancy. These vehicles don't have enough armour or health to make use of the offensive type veterancy they currently have. Their main damage comes from infantry garrisoned inside.
I propose that we replace all of their offensive veterancy with the kind that will increase it's survivablilty, such as received accuracy, armour or hp bonuses. As of now, getting a Level 3 Veterancy Halftrack (Excluding M5) is merely a badge of honour that gives you bragging rights. Level 3 Veterancy doesn't help them function any better as a possible Hit and Run Vehicle. They won't survive long enough against even Small Arms fire to make an effective hit and run vehicle.
What do you guys think?
Halftrack-Type Vehicles Vet Needs Reworked
25 Nov 2015, 18:20 PM
#1
Posts: 393
25 Nov 2015, 19:09 PM
#2
Posts: 670
All vet needs rework, especially EFA
I myself bought 14 OKW factions during a Steam sale last year for alt accounts
25 Nov 2015, 21:54 PM
#3
Posts: 59
Agreed.
Since the changes to halftrack upgrades no longer reinforcing, half of the vet 2 and 3 bonuses are redundant.
Perhaps for example: Sdkfz251 flamethrower halftrack
Vet2 = increased move speed and rotation (partly current vet3 bonus)
Vet3 = increased armour and +10 health (to make it just a little more survivable in the late midgame / lategame - the extra armour should significantly reduce small arms damage)
Thoughts?
Since the changes to halftrack upgrades no longer reinforcing, half of the vet 2 and 3 bonuses are redundant.
Perhaps for example: Sdkfz251 flamethrower halftrack
Vet2 = increased move speed and rotation (partly current vet3 bonus)
Vet3 = increased armour and +10 health (to make it just a little more survivable in the late midgame / lategame - the extra armour should significantly reduce small arms damage)
Thoughts?
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25 Nov 2015, 22:04 PM
#4
Posts: 521
In my opinion, I think vet is too hard to get.
For example here, with my King Tiger, I killed 20 infantry and 2 vehicles, and not even one star yet.
And tanks like T-34/76, very hard to vet, with its crap gun. If you do get lucky and get to vet 1, congrats! You get to capture points! Very helpful in combat!
For example here, with my King Tiger, I killed 20 infantry and 2 vehicles, and not even one star yet.
And tanks like T-34/76, very hard to vet, with its crap gun. If you do get lucky and get to vet 1, congrats! You get to capture points! Very helpful in combat!
25 Nov 2015, 22:06 PM
#5
4 Posts: 474
You think vetting a king tiger is hard; try getting a *vet 5 flame hetzer.
*Spoiler: It's impossible in any competitive game.
*Spoiler: It's impossible in any competitive game.
25 Nov 2015, 22:32 PM
#6
7 
Posts: 1664
Jason Lee mentioned working on veterancy twice in streams within the last six months so I am cautiously optimistic. I feel like we're finally approaching a point in balance and bugs where veterancy can be used as a tool to inject more of the asymmetry into the game and really add some flavor and function to units. Here's to hoping 
25 Nov 2015, 23:22 PM
#7
Posts: 830
In my opinion, I think vet is too hard to get.
For example here, with my King Tiger, I killed 20 infantry and 2 vehicles, and not even one star yet.
And tanks like T-34/76, very hard to vet, with its crap gun. If you do get lucky and get to vet 1, congrats! You get to capture points! Very helpful in combat!
Su85 is even worse, it vets so slow it dies before reaching vet 1 almost every time. It is just absurd.
26 Nov 2015, 00:29 AM
#8
Posts: 344
Brumbar is hard to vet, it do low dmg to vehicles and it need a lot of infantry kills to lvl to vet 3.
26 Nov 2015, 00:51 AM
#9
Posts: 543
Brumbar is hard to vet, it do low dmg to vehicles and it need a lot of infantry kills to lvl to vet 3.
But once you get it - so glorious, fast-moving wipe-machine. \o/
26 Nov 2015, 03:53 AM
#10
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
All vet needs rework, especially EFA
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
26 Nov 2015, 04:03 AM
#11
Posts: 2742
It'd be interesting if halftracks could do some sort of hulldown ability like tanks that could provide cover for infantry. I wonder if it would be a workable game mechanic.
But yeah, a lot of vet bonuses seem archaic or misplaced.
But yeah, a lot of vet bonuses seem archaic or misplaced.
Strategic Territory Points Mod:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=604491510
Classic resource points!
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=604491510
Classic resource points!
26 Nov 2015, 04:17 AM
#12
Posts: 1304 | Subs: 13
It'd be interesting if halftracks could do some sort of hulldown ability like tanks that could provide cover for infantry. I wonder if it would be a workable game mechanic.
But yeah, a lot of vet bonuses seem archaic or misplaced.
Most vehicles already provide green cover for troops. The main reason you don't see people use this is due to the nature of vehicles needing to move to survive against ATGs/ranged AT.
Don't think it'd be too difficult to make alternative veterancy restricted to a half-track if it depend on being upgraded or not. You can already add requirement to squad veterancy as it is.
Both units could also have similar vet as they use burst weapons, so increasing the duration they fire the flames/quad would be nice for combat vet.
26 Nov 2015, 04:17 AM
#13
Posts: 1063
But once you get it - so glorious, fast-moving wipe-machine. \o/
That's nothing compared to vetted Stuka or SturmTiger, it just rekt everything.
26 Nov 2015, 05:33 AM
#14
Posts: 2742
Most vehicles already provide green cover for troops. The main reason you don't see people use this is due to the nature of vehicles needing to move to survive against ATGs/ranged AT.
Well, ATGs being fielded before any vehicles can feasibly built does have a lot to do with it, but that was sort of my point: a hulldown ability could give halftracks a bit of durability. Enough at least so that one could absorb an extra blow or two could make that cover viable could make all the difference.
But furthermore, the fact that infantry scatter at the slightest twitch of movement has another thing to do with it. Having units stay in cover is a rather important aspect of utilizing its benefits. It'd be hard to use the cover even if you tried.
Strategic Territory Points Mod:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=604491510
Classic resource points!
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=604491510
Classic resource points!
26 Nov 2015, 06:44 AM
#15
Posts: 951
Well, ATGs being fielded before any vehicles can feasibly built does have a lot to do with it, but that was sort of my point: a hulldown ability could give halftracks a bit of durability. Enough at least so that one could absorb an extra blow or two could make that cover viable could make all the difference.
But furthermore, the fact that infantry scatter at the slightest twitch of movement has another thing to do with it. Having units stay in cover is a rather important aspect of utilizing its benefits. It'd be hard to use the cover even if you tried.
Non-doctrinal all-faction halftack hulldown is a bad idea. Those WM commanders' uniqueness would be robbed. And doing this promotes turtling (defensive gameplay.)
I like ZeroLithium's idea. Mobility to kite for Vet 2, survivability for Vet 3.
NON VOS TURBATIS
26 Nov 2015, 07:08 AM
#16
7 Posts: 1664
Brumbar is hard to vet, it do low dmg to vehicles and it need a lot of infantry kills to lvl to vet 3.
True, but keep in mind the free vet 1 barrage can add on a good amount of damage to help you get to vet 2 and 3.
Also +1 to the OP's idea. Defensive veterancy makes a LOT more sense than offensive for HT's but I would still give them a bonus to reinforce radius at vet 2 for the times when you don't upgrade it but use it to reinforce instead.
26 Nov 2015, 07:30 AM
#17
Posts: 393
Agreed.I very much agree with this.
Since the changes to halftrack upgrades no longer reinforcing, half of the vet 2 and 3 bonuses are redundant.
Perhaps for example: Sdkfz251 flamethrower halftrack
Vet2 = increased move speed and rotation (partly current vet3 bonus)
Vet3 = increased armour and +10 health (to make it just a little more survivable in the late midgame / lategame - the extra armour should significantly reduce small arms damage)
Thoughts?
26 Nov 2015, 07:51 AM
#18
Posts: 424 | Subs: 2
I actually like the current veterancy of the half with the 20% increase reinforce range at vet 2 and another 20% range at vet 3. Lets you stay further behind to line to reinforce. One thing that would be nice if it gained veterancy from nearby units to level up as it than could actually veteran up at a reasonable rate. The increased mobility is also good for picking up squads from base to the frontline and the sight radius is always useful for spotting the enemy.
26 Nov 2015, 10:01 AM
#19
Posts: 393
Reinforcement Veterancy doesn't help things like the M3 Scout Car though, which is notoriously fragile. If it were say, 33% harder to hit, as the driver gains experience, it would set it apart from the M5 Halftrack and be a quick, durable, hit and run vehicle. Great for point raiding behind enemy lines.
As for the Wehrmacht variant of the open-top halftrack, I would like to see it get some kind of Vet at least. In order to do that though, it needs to get a mount MG42 (Like Panzer Elite from CoH1) or get a share of veterancy from units around it. I would prefer the former. Otherwise, it can't hope to gain anything at all.
As for the Wehrmacht variant of the open-top halftrack, I would like to see it get some kind of Vet at least. In order to do that though, it needs to get a mount MG42 (Like Panzer Elite from CoH1) or get a share of veterancy from units around it. I would prefer the former. Otherwise, it can't hope to gain anything at all.
26 Nov 2015, 10:15 AM
#20
Posts: 17900 | Subs: 8
Brumbar is hard to vet, it do low dmg to vehicles and it need a lot of infantry kills to lvl to vet 3.
It does 160 dmg on penetration, as any other tank and 80 dmg on deflection, 80 more then any other tank.
It also have pretty decent penetration, high enough to pen all med tanks reliably except ez8.
It beats by a long shot dozer sherman in AT while having better AoE for AI.
The two things people can complain about here is armor OR range and pathing.
Brummber doesn't get half the credit it deserves.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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